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Posted: Wed, 02 Jul 2008, 3:58pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 271
WPP: 159
Location: Sweden
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| Pythonic wrote: | | There were mass layoffs in 2000 as well, the world will go on. |
Here's the thing, you were due to have a pretty massive recession in 2000, but you didn't. Instead you postponed it for 8 years with inflationary monetary policy. However, this ultimately made things a lot worse.
The problem is that everyone dreads a recession, especially politcians. But it's during the boom period that the problems are piling up, and thus it's the boom periods that actually shuld be dreaded. A recession is simply the unraveling of the problems that's been brewing under the surface. It's like a hangover really. Everyone knows that a hangover feels bad. But they also know it's the partying that precedes the hangover that's actually causing the problem. The hangover is simply a neccesary cleansing period, and so is a recession.
A boom period occurs because the interest rates are too low. Interest rates are supposed to reflect the amount of savings in the economy. The higher the "supply" of savings is, the lower the rates are. However, since countries today have a central bank that indirectly sets the interest rates however it wishes, this is no longer true. When the interest rates are lower than market value, the market believes that the amount of savings are higher than they actually are. This leads to malinvestments and over-consumption. The only way to deal with this over-consumption is with a future period of under-consumption i.e. a recession.
During the end of the ninties the clinton administration created the foundation for the dot com bubble. In 2000 the bubble finally burst and this should've lead to a huge recession. Bush however, didn't really want to begin his presidency with a big recession, so instead he gave you the most aggresssive monetary policy ever pursued by the federal reserve. This was the beginning of a new bubble, the housing bubble. The biggest problem is, that the thing you experienced during the beginning of this decade, wasn't a recession. During every other recession in history, people have used it to pay back debt they shouldn't have taken on. However, as a result of the easy money during this recession, people actually took on more debt. I'll say that again. At the end of this recession US were in more debt than at the beginning. This has never ever happened before. Basically what this means is that the losses from the dot com bubble were sucked up in the new housing bubble. So what you are seeing now is kinda like two huge recessions piled up on top of eachother. This is going to be combined with an ever increasing cost of living and rising interest payments. |
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Posted: Wed, 02 Jul 2008, 4:06pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 831
WPP: 104
Location: Yo Mamma
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| Quote: | | they should go get another job. It's their fault | 
| Quote: | And I blame the banks/mortgage companies for being very greedy and f***cking up the whole industry and lots of people in the process.
nobody going to blame an ill-conceived war yet ? |
| Quote: | | cancer would probable be cured already if instead of wars US govt funded science. | 
| Quote: | | Automakers in America have been fighting against fuel efficiency | 
Come on, this is how you really think? Rly? |
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Posted: Wed, 02 Jul 2008, 4:30pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 586
WPP: 56
Location: In S-mart Swallowing Your Soul!
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| The only people who will get killed are those who are layed off who live pay check to pay check and those who took out 5yr or 10yr arms to buy their house. I have a 30 yr fixed at 5.25% and I couldn't be happier. |
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Posted: Wed, 02 Jul 2008, 4:39pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 616
WPP: 178
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2_Thumbs_Up is fairly spot on.
We're in this situation primarily due to speculative excesses, and abusive lending practices combined with a deficient mass credit rating system that occurred during the 2002-2006 low interest rate period and manifested in the housing market.
In order to avoid mass bank failures due to the crash of the housing bubble, the Federal Reserve has been forced to pursue yet another aggressive monetary policy. Thus the devalued dollar combined with dramatically increased demand (primarily foreign for fuel, and alternative energy for food) has driven up food and gas prices sharply.
Add to that billions of dollars in hedge fund money fueling the increase in commodity futures and things are bubbling again, just in a different area.
Good and bad I guess - oil companies are raking in excessive profits - but now it's actually profitable for them to begin new exploration and drilling again, which it hasn't been so for many years. However, all that takes many years to play out...balance will be achieved again but continue to expect wild swings in the meantime.
As I'm sure you've read the situation we're in now compares as much/more to the late 70s than the late 20s, though there are similarities to both eras. In the 20s the government increased itself exponentially to deal with the depression. In the 70s/80s monetary policy was ridiculously constrictive and interest rates were through the roof.
In the 20s those regulating monetary policy were too slow to react. In the 70s America also had to deal with rising wages in addition to rising commodity prices and interest rates.
We'll pull through again, but times are definitely tough - and likely to get tougher for another year or so, and are greatly exacerbated by encouraged poor credit decsisions on the part of consumers and lenders alike. That's where the biggest danger we face lies - large bank failures would be disastrous worldwide, and I expect there will be a few - most likely to be bailed out by the US government.
The government has already employed most of their available tools to address this issue - loose monetary policy, lower interest rates, tax rebate, targeted legislation...we're moving into a bit of a wait and see period now - those adjustments take a while to demonstrate themselves in the economy...if they've done enough, things will stabalize...if not, more will be done.
Interesting discussion!
-TheHorror |
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Posted: Wed, 02 Jul 2008, 5:34pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 1370
WPP: 234
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| Pythonic wrote: | | wufwugy wrote: | | Pythonic wrote: | | I am comprehending you fine. Do you not think people should fix their own issues when the resources are out there to do so? |
this is why i said you're not comprehending me. its not about fixing our own issues exclusively, and the resources are not necessarily out there. i am not referring to now, present day. i am referring to, as i have been through the entire thread, to the course of energy supply and demand. we rely almost completely on oil, and you are kidding yourself if you think that we are not dealing with finite resources cost-effectively viable.
you know how if you look at a winning player's poker graph you see over the short term a line that rockets up and down, but over the long term a line that goes up? well this is how it is with fossil fuels. over the short term, supply and demand can be affected by factors other than our Absolute resources, but over the long term, it is affected by that wholly. prices are going up and rapidly, and they will continue to incline until they become so expensive that the companies cannot sell any. if by this time we rely on oil to much of the degree that we do now then we will plummet into unfathomable depression. this will likely not happen, but definitely closer than anybody is willing to admit. we're dealing with economic issues like supply/demand and cost/value. you are not referring to global economic issues, but personal issues and neglecting the rest.
i say you are not comprehending my posts because you are neglecting these points. the point that prices are rising fast and will continue. i repeat myself, what are we going to do when oil is twice or three times as expensive? ill address more in a later post |
I understand completely that our economy is oil driven. But I still stand by my point that gas is dirt cheap in the U.S. compared to the rest of the world. The price per barrel will level out soon though, the price had to get to where it needs to be due to increased demand from China and India. In the meantme we have of options to reduce the price if we see fit. Add more refineries in the U.S. We can tap into our oil in Alaska which is like the 5th largest reserve in the world.
We must keep evolving like we have for the last 1000 yrs.
1. Increasing the supply should be the #1 goal right now since prices are sky rocketing because of the higher demand.
2. Find an alternative fuel before the oil runs dry
3. Employers need to let people work from home if the job can be done there. This will save money for both the employer and employee.
Now have you thought about how much more expensive alternative fuels would be and how many people in the oil business/gas stations would lose there jobs if we stray away from oil eventually? It works both ways you know. |
re gas dirt cheap: you need to compare across the board. there are a number of reasons why gas in US is cheaper relative to other nations, yet why gas in US is hella expensive for US consumer. in other nations, you'll find that a ton of their taxes are added to the pump price, and their gas usage due to geography is way less. you cannot make such a simple comparison.
US reserves are not nearly as much as you think, and will not reduce prices by much at all. are you privy to information claiming otherwise?
prices will level out at many points just like in a poker graph, but they will continue to rise and rise just like in a poker graph. dont confuse the short term with long term. i hope you have noticed that what im referring to is not short term stuff but long term stuff. this is fantastic that its long term though since it gives us more time to alternate energies.
the jobs lost from switching from oil to something else will be itty bitty compared to jobs gained from the switch and from a better economy. when people have more money to spend they create more jobs.
also, prices leveling out will last only a short while because demand is rapidly increasing. thank china and india like you said |
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Posted: Wed, 02 Jul 2008, 6:00pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 586
WPP: 56
Location: In S-mart Swallowing Your Soul!
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Bottom Line: Our gas is one of the cheapest in the world, other countries pay more tax and we do it different but I only care about the bottom line.
Everything goes up every year due to inflation.
If we wanna get gas cheaper then the supply must be increased.
I have nothing left to say. |
Last edited by Pythonic on Wed, 02 Jul 2008, 6:05pm; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Wed, 02 Jul 2008, 6:05pm Post subject:
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OLD MAN RIVER
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 3687
WPP: 80
Location: Canuckistan
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| Pythonic wrote: |
Good, people don't need to be spending $4 on coffee anyways and it's about time people got there values straight. I don't think those employees laid off will have any problem finding a new job at some other fast food restaurant because of the high turnover.
There were mass layoffs in 2000 as well, the world will go on. |
| Pythonic wrote: |
Now have you thought about how much more expensive alternative fuels would be and how many people in the oil business/gas stations would lose there jobs if we stray away from oil eventually? | |
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Posted: Wed, 02 Jul 2008, 6:24pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3545
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| Pythonic wrote: | | People can go to college for free with most employers so I don't want to hear it. |
Ahahahaha what the poop gives you that idea? |
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Posted: Wed, 02 Jul 2008, 6:24pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 440
WPP: 197
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| fuk gas. gimme wona dem japonees kars that don ran on wata. |
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Posted: Wed, 02 Jul 2008, 9:31pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 213
WPP: 132
Location: count-n mah monies stewie-style
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| 2_Thumbs_Up wrote: | | Pythonic wrote: | | There were mass layoffs in 2000 as well, the world will go on. |
Here's the thing, you were due to have a pretty massive recession in 2000, but you didn't. Instead you postponed it for 8 years with inflationary monetary policy. However, this ultimately made things a lot worse.
The problem is that everyone dreads a recession, especially politcians. But it's during the boom period that the problems are piling up, and thus it's the boom periods that actually shuld be dreaded. A recession is simply the unraveling of the problems that's been brewing under the surface. It's like a hangover really. Everyone knows that a hangover feels bad. But they also know it's the partying that precedes the hangover that's actually causing the problem. The hangover is simply a neccesary cleansing period, and so is a recession.
A boom period occurs because the interest rates are too low. Interest rates are supposed to reflect the amount of savings in the economy. The higher the "supply" of savings is, the lower the rates are. However, since countries today have a central bank that indirectly sets the interest rates however it wishes, this is no longer true. When the interest rates are lower than market value, the market believes that the amount of savings are higher than they actually are. This leads to malinvestments and over-consumption. The only way to deal with this over-consumption is with a future period of under-consumption i.e. a recession.
During the end of the ninties the clinton administration created the foundation for the dot com bubble. In 2000 the bubble finally burst and this should've lead to a huge recession. Bush however, didn't really want to begin his presidency with a big recession, so instead he gave you the most aggresssive monetary policy ever pursued by the federal reserve. This was the beginning of a new bubble, the housing bubble. The biggest problem is, that the thing you experienced during the beginning of this decade, wasn't a recession. During every other recession in history, people have used it to pay back debt they shouldn't have taken on. However, as a result of the easy money during this recession, people actually took on more debt. I'll say that again. At the end of this recession US were in more debt than at the beginning. This has never ever happened before. Basically what this means is that the losses from the dot com bubble were sucked up in the new housing bubble. So what you are seeing now is kinda like two huge recessions piled up on top of eachother. This is going to be combined with an ever increasing cost of living and rising interest payments. |
i thought i said this already.......wait i did. just not in so many words | Quote: | | "LIKE OMG HERE HAVE A LOAN I DONT CARE WHAT YOUR CREDIT IS..........but the interest rate is variable, or only fixed for x months/years" |
but if we really wanna talk about debt, paying back debt with US dollars is paying debt with debt.  (sigh) i miss the gold standard........not that i was around when we went off it.....but still.
as for my view being too narrow, i only replied to the example you gave. You gave a specific example, I gave my reason why I felt that example was flawed. but to continue what i said, you're kinda backing my point. everyone is going to need a doctor, so that job isn't going anywhere. in fact, there's a chronic shortage in the workforce of most medical professions. in other words, there is available work, just a shortage of people qualified to fill those positions. that in my opinion is the biggest issue with our country. we're fighting becoming a post industrial society([urlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-industrial_society]definition[/url]).
but to give you FACTS
unemployment for may was only up 0.5% to an OMG 5.5%. yea we're almost to the depression.
look at the line graph where unemployment went DOWN for the past2 years and is only now just starting to rise
and as i said in my first post, our GDP went up in the first quarter of this year (i can only say for the first data because that is the most recent data available).
here's the proof for that
and if we're so fucked, why is the majority of countries we're giving money to reinvestinng that money back into US infrastructure? that wouldn't make much sense if we're going into a depression. A good example starts back in '06 with UAE acquiring our major ports. Also, the Chinese government buying up US debt. I don't feel like googling for links to those. Feel free to do it yourself. But, this has kinda turned into an uber thread hijack. the OP wanted to know if we were PERSONALLY noticing changes. To me, there has been no change in any of my spending. The only real complaint I've heard is about gas prices. So if you're coming from across the pond, you should be happy because our gas is so damn cheap to you! |
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Posted: Wed, 02 Jul 2008, 9:32pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 213
WPP: 132
Location: count-n mah monies stewie-style
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| spoonitnow wrote: | | Pythonic wrote: | | People can go to college for free with most employers so I don't want to hear it. |
Ahahahaha what the poop gives you that idea? |
there are actually quite a few companies that practice tuition reinbursement. |
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Posted: Thu, 03 Jul 2008, 7:54am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 271
WPP: 159
Location: Sweden
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| frosst wrote: | i thought i said this already.......wait i did. just not in so many words | Quote: | | "LIKE OMG HERE HAVE A LOAN I DONT CARE WHAT YOUR CREDIT IS..........but the interest rate is variable, or only fixed for x months/years" | |
The thing is, you seem to be blaming the banks when it's the central bank who should have all the blame. The banks were just acting rationally based of the central planning from the federal reserve.
| frosst wrote: | | but if we really wanna talk about debt, paying back debt with US dollars is paying debt with debt. (sigh) i miss the gold standard........not that i was around when we went off it.....but still. |
Gold standard, no fractional reserve banking and no central bank.. Then the world would be a much better place.
Figures lie and liars figure.
| frosst wrote: | | and if we're so fucked, why is the majority of countries we're giving money to reinvestinng that money back into US infrastructure? that wouldn't make much sense if we're going into a depression. A good example starts back in '06 with UAE acquiring our major ports. Also, the Chinese government buying up US debt. I don't feel like googling for links to those. Feel free to do it yourself. But, this has kinda turned into an uber thread hijack. the OP wanted to know if we were PERSONALLY noticing changes. To me, there has been no change in any of my spending. The only real complaint I've heard is about gas prices. So if you're coming from across the pond, you should be happy because our gas is so damn cheap to you! |
You are looking at it the wrong way. Foreigners aren't investing in america, they are buying up america. You are selling your farms and cows to buy milk. It's not like they are using new dollars in order to do it either. They are just getting rid of the dollars they already have. And since you don't produce nearly enough goods to make up for all the dollars in the world they buy up your infrastructure instead. What else are they supposed to do with their dollars?
And yeah, I know about china buying up US debt, but that is coming to an end as well. |
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Posted: Thu, 03 Jul 2008, 9:52am Post subject: Re: How's the economy?
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3-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 55
WPP: 46
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| 2_Thumbs_Up wrote: | I'm trying to get an objective understanding of the current economic situation in the US. Looking at manipulated stats won't help so I turn to you instead, to tell me your personal view on how bad things are. I want to know if someone you know may be in trouble because of the housing crisis. And how fast is the cost of living going up? Is inflation noticable when you go shopping? Have you noticed any difference with credit card loans yet?
I read a lot about people having a rough time right now but I'd like to know how wide spread this is. If you have personally noticed something that's out of the ordinary, please tell me. |
try shadowstats when i make a few more posts, i'll do a linky add the ususal world wide web and com |
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Posted: Thu, 03 Jul 2008, 10:04am Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 213
WPP: 132
Location: count-n mah monies stewie-style
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I'm actually blaming the consumer for not making good decisions. The banks didn't do anything wrong (on paper) because they were just creating ways to increase profit, although alot of the loan officers/mortgage brokers didn't fully explain how ARM mortgages worked. They just advertised the low payments at the beginning. But, like I said, that's on the consumer. As for the figures, lol, all I'm doing is presenting them to back my argument, which you're supposed to do if you're presenting a point of view right?
How is purchasing US assets not investing?
in·vest (ĭn-věst') Pronunciation Key
v. in·vest·ed, in·vest·ing, in·vests
v. tr.
1. To commit (money or capital) in order to gain a financial return
2.
1. To spend or devote for future advantage or benefit:
But why would they invest in a recessing economy? That doesn't make sense to buy companies that aren't doing well, or real estate that is going down in value, just because they have money to burn. You might need to reexamine this a little closer and see why they are choosing to put their money here vs somewhere else |
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Posted: Thu, 03 Jul 2008, 10:37am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 586
WPP: 56
Location: In S-mart Swallowing Your Soul!
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| spoonitnow wrote: | | Pythonic wrote: | | People can go to college for free with most employers so I don't want to hear it. |
Ahahahaha what the poop gives you that idea? |
Because I did. |
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Posted: Thu, 03 Jul 2008, 11:04am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 271
WPP: 159
Location: Sweden
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| frosst wrote: | | I'm actually blaming the consumer for not making good decisions. The banks didn't do anything wrong (on paper) because they were just creating ways to increase profit, although alot of the loan officers/mortgage brokers didn't fully explain how ARM mortgages worked. They just advertised the low payments at the beginning. But, like I said, that's on the consumer. |
Ok then, but the consumer were also fooled by false price signals. Also, alot of the house buyers didn't really take any risk. They were getting a house with no downpayment and paying interest that's pretty much as low as rent. Now, if they can't afford it anymore they'll just hand over the keys to the bank. There are like 5 years of supply of houses on the market so no one will be homeless. It's the banks that are in the real trouble, and these problems will spread to the tax payers.
| frosst wrote: | | As for the figures, lol, all I'm doing is presenting them to back my argument, which you're supposed to do if you're presenting a point of view right? |
My point was that government stats aren't exactly worth much right now. You have to remember that the governement has an agenda. The federal reserve needs to save face and thinks it can talk up the economy. It's also election year which surely plays a part in this as well. I don't know much about the umemploment stats but lets take the gdp growth. In order for the governement to come up with the number they have, they have to calculate with an annual inflation rate of 2.7%. From what I've heard and read (and this is partly why i started this thread) there is simply no way in hell that inflation is that low. Annual 2.7% inflation would be pretty much standard. Are the things you are seeing around you right now standard? If you meassure growth in terms of gold instead you'll notice that the economy actually shrunk.
| frosst wrote: | How is purchasing US assets not investing?
in·vest (ĭn-věst') Pronunciation Key
v. in·vest·ed, in·vest·ing, in·vests
v. tr.
1. To commit (money or capital) in order to gain a financial return
2.
1. To spend or devote for future advantage or benefit:
But why would they invest in a recessing economy? That doesn't make sense to buy companies that aren't doing well, or real estate that is going down in value, just because they have money to burn. You might need to reexamine this a little closer and see why they are choosing to put their money here vs somewhere else |
There's a huge difference between acquiring new dollars and buying up assets as to buying up assets with dollars you already have. Foreigners want to get rid of their dollars. Some are smart and are buying other currencies and investing abroad. But ultimately to get the dollars back into the US someone has to buy US assets or products. Sure you may still call this investing, but it's still not good for US citizens. All it means is that profits that used to be earned by americans will go abroad instead. |
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Posted: Thu, 03 Jul 2008, 11:19am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 255
WPP: 179
Location: VA USA
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| frosst wrote: | | I'm actually blaming the consumer for not making good decisions. The banks didn't do anything wrong (on paper) because they were just creating ways to increase profit, although alot of the loan officers/mortgage brokers didn't fully explain how ARM mortgages worked. They just advertised the low payments at the beginning. But, like I said, that's on the consumer. |
I wouldn't say the banks didn't do anything wrong on paper or otherwise. They're job is to increase profits, yes, but they're "investing", by taking risks (loaning money) for profit. So when they tell someone who has poor or no credit that "you can afford this house with an ARM", they are taking unnecessary risk without getting the rewards in return. In essense they were taking more risk for less interest (reward). That's a recipe for disaster IMO. But I totally agree that its caveat emptor, and I think its kinda crappy that the government is also looking for ways to bail these people out of bad loans. |
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Posted: Thu, 03 Jul 2008, 11:25am Post subject:
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OLD MAN RIVER
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 3687
WPP: 80
Location: Canuckistan
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| frosst wrote: |
But why would they invest in a recessing economy? That doesn't make sense to buy companies that aren't doing well, or real estate that is going down in value, just because they have money to burn. |
Distressed assets are always a good investment if you have a reaonable expectation that they will be worth more in the future. (see Warren Buffet). If I had the dough, I'd be buying US real estate like there's no tomorrow.
| 2_Thumbs_Up wrote: |
There's a huge difference between acquiring new dollars and buying up assets as to buying up assets with dollars you already have. Foreigners want to get rid of their dollars. Some are smart and are buying other currencies and investing abroad. But ultimately to get the dollars back into the US someone has to buy US assets or products. Sure you may still call this investing, but it's still not good for US citizens. All it means is that profits that used to be earned by americans will go abroad instead. |
In a global economy, wringing your hands about foreign investment in your country is pretty much nonsensical. Investment creates jobs which create wealth etc. (see Toyota)
Of interest:
http://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/mginews/why_debt_hasnt_killed_us_yet.asp |
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Posted: Thu, 03 Jul 2008, 12:00pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 753
WPP: 153
Location: Ohio
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Currently, being a US resident and one who depends on myself to make a living, I would love to have some extra money right now, I'd be buying property left and right. The house I bought last year has dropped slightly in value but I bought it for probably 80% of it's value just 3 years ago... property values are down due to the abundance of houses on the market... so in about 5 years or so I stand to make a hefty amount...
My suggestion, if you have money to spend and are in the US... buy rental properties... good ones. They will increase in value in a few years and during the meantime your tenants can pay your mortgage... that is what I'm working on now... trying to get my down payment together on a couple...
As towards the economy in the U.S. - It isn't as good as the Reagan days but we aren't suffering. Gas is high, once the government wises up and allows more refinery building and drilling in certain areas, we'll be out of that mess. Unless these 'green' people push us further into regulations... Anyway, in my area if you want to work you can, there is unemployment but it is marginal, as in most areas I have visited. So there is not nearly the issue the media makes it out to be in my area at least. |
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Posted: Thu, 03 Jul 2008, 12:16pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 271
WPP: 159
Location: Sweden
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But this isn't really investments. It's just assets switching hands from americans to foreigners. I'm not really saying it's bad either. It's simply the result of bad monetary policy which has impoverished the US. Americans want to sell their assets and other americans are simply too broke to afford them, so the wealthier foreigners are buying it instead. However, anyone buying american assets right now is making a pretty bad deal, seeing how it will be way cheaper in a few years. |
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Posted: Thu, 03 Jul 2008, 12:52pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3545
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| frosst wrote: | | spoonitnow wrote: | | Pythonic wrote: | | People can go to college for free with most employers so I don't want to hear it. |
Ahahahaha what the poop gives you that idea? |
there are actually quite a few companies that practice tuition reinbursement. |
But it's hardly "most". |
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Posted: Thu, 03 Jul 2008, 1:02pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 213
WPP: 132
Location: count-n mah monies stewie-style
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| 2_Thumbs_Up wrote: |
But this isn't really investments. It's just assets switching hands from americans to foreigners. I'm not really saying it's bad either. It's simply the result of bad monetary policy which has impoverished the US. Americans want to sell their assets and other americans are simply too broke to afford them, so the wealthier foreigners are buying it instead. However, anyone buying american assets right now is making a pretty bad deal, seeing how it will be way cheaper in a few years. | yes, it is an investment. thats like saying buying a stock low and selling it high isn't an investment because it switched ownership. That's how investing works. you buy something from someone with the expectation it will increase in worth. And when it does, you hope to sell it to someone at a price that is profit to you. My point about foreigners investing, heavily, in american assets is that obviously they don't see our economy being in huge trouble. otherwise, why wouldn't they put their money in assets in their country, or another one? |
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Posted: Thu, 03 Jul 2008, 1:05pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 586
WPP: 56
Location: In S-mart Swallowing Your Soul!
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| spoonitnow wrote: | | frosst wrote: | | spoonitnow wrote: | | Pythonic wrote: | | People can go to college for free with most employers so I don't want to hear it. |
Ahahahaha what the poop gives you that idea? |
there are actually quite a few companies that practice tuition reinbursement. |
But it's hardly "most". |
I'd say that 90% of all publically traded companies do and that is a shit load of companies. So actually it is most. |
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Posted: Thu, 03 Jul 2008, 1:10pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 213
WPP: 132
Location: count-n mah monies stewie-style
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| btw that last post isn't an invitation on how investing for valuation is bad investing. It was just an example I was using to illustrate a point.........like the one about foreigners investing in our assets during a recession. Obv you guys see my point when you mentioned about buying distressed properties right now knowing it'll pay for itself later on. THAT WAS MY POINT. If things are about to be "OMG ITS DAPREZZION" they wouldn't be doing it. Do you think they made all that money by being stupid? oh and the banks aren't in trouble. money is their business. foreclosures have always been around. they knew those people were high risk. basically they purchased real estate on free money. the consumer bought it and paid 100% interest to the bank, got foreclosed on and now the bank owns the property, which it'll just resell. |
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Posted: Thu, 03 Jul 2008, 1:51pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 753
WPP: 153
Location: Ohio
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| Pythonic wrote: | | spoonitnow wrote: | | frosst wrote: | | spoonitnow wrote: | | Pythonic wrote: | | People can go to college for free with most employers so I don't want to hear it. |
Ahahahaha what the poop gives you that idea? |
there are actually quite a few companies that practice tuition reinbursement. |
But it's hardly "most". |
I'd say that 90% of all publically traded companies do and that is a shit load of companies. So actually it is most. |
It may be a great benefit but it is one that most people I know shy away from accepting, myself included. Tuition reimbursement at my organization is high, with them paying up to $3000 per year in tuition, which allows you to take about 1 1/2 college courses... so that for each year of college is about 8-9 classes or more, that leads to an incredibly long time to finish school... plus for each $3,000 you accept, you sign a contract to work at least 1 year with the company or pay it back in full.
This is similar to how it was at the last three places I worked that offered it. |
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Posted: Thu, 03 Jul 2008, 2:04pm Post subject:
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OLD MAN RIVER
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 3687
WPP: 80
Location: Canuckistan
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| Pythonic wrote: |
I'd say that 90% of all publically traded companies do and that is a shit load of companies. So actually it is most. |
There are about 13 million companies in the US, but only about 7,000 publicly traded ones.
Regardless, supposedly about 85% of US companies with 20 employees or more offer "some form" of tuition reimbursement, but a lot of them (probably most?) don't even come close to covering the cost of getting a degree/certificate in any reasonable time-frame because of annual maximums, etc. Not to mention, for a lot of people in lower paying jobs, putting out the cash up-front for reimbursement later is often beyond their means. |
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Posted: Thu, 03 Jul 2008, 3:02pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 586
WPP: 56
Location: In S-mart Swallowing Your Soul!
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Well I wasn't talking about all the gas stations and ma and pa shops out there. I never said you could get a degree super fast but it can be achieved. Mine was 85% covered by my work and that's pretty damn good I suppose.
They all have those online degrees now where you can get it even faster. |
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Posted: Thu, 03 Jul 2008, 3:09pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 271
WPP: 159
Location: Sweden
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| frosst wrote: | | My point about foreigners investing, heavily, in american assets is that obviously they don't see our economy being in huge trouble. otherwise, why wouldn't they put their money in assets in their country, or another one? |
I said earlier that the smart investors are putting their money in their own country. The reason everyone isn't doing it is because everyone isn't smart. The dollar is historically low so people see that as a purchasing opportunity. What they don't look at is the fact that your government is still printing money like crazy, so there is absolutely no chance that the dollar will make a comeback. Anyone who wants to buy something in the US should wait a few years.
| frosst wrote: | | btw that last post isn't an invitation on how investing for valuation is bad investing. It was just an example I was using to illustrate a point.........like the one about foreigners investing in our assets during a recession. Obv you guys see my point when you mentioned about buying distressed properties right now knowing it'll pay for itself later on. THAT WAS MY POINT. If things are about to be "OMG ITS DAPREZZION" they wouldn't be doing it. Do you think they made all that money by being stupid? oh and the banks aren't in trouble. money is their business. foreclosures have always been around. they knew those people were high risk. basically they purchased real estate on free money. the consumer bought it and paid 100% interest to the bank, got foreclosed on and now the bank owns the property, which it'll just resell. |
The problem is that houses are still way overvalued. There are no buyers at todays price. The housing bubble was blown up for years and the prizes will fall for years as well. the banks are in horrible shape and you haven't seen nothing of it yet. This will spread to the US consumer which in turn will affect the entire service sector. |
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Posted: Thu, 03 Jul 2008, 4:02pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1623
WPP: 101
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| The National Debt is the biggest problem our economy faces in the long run... and its not even close |
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Posted: Thu, 03 Jul 2008, 8:05pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 2370
WPP: 74
Location: Here and There
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Posted: Fri, 04 Jul 2008, 8:11am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 1011
WPP: 103
Location: Hartford, CT
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Nov 24th: FTR $100 Freeroll @ Sportsbook Poker at 8pm ET
