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Posted: Tue, 28 Jun 2005, 2:11pm Post subject: Flopped Quads vs Known FTRer
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Strike 3
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 3289
WPP: 119
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Hand vs Estrop a couple of minutes ago.
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter
Hero ($35.25)
Estrop ($47.6)
BB ($12.9)
UTG ($23.8)
MP ($26.5)
Preflop: Hero is Button with 7 , 7 . Estrop posts a blind of $0.1.
2 folds, Hero raises to $1, Estrop (poster) calls $0.90, BB calls $0.75.
Flop: ($3) 7 , 7 , 2 (3 players)
Estrop checks, BB checks, Hero checks.
Turn: ($3) 4 (3 players)
Estrop bets $2, BB folds, Hero calls $2.
River: ($7) A (2 players)
Estrop bets [$6], Hero raises [$12], Estrop is all-In [$38.6], Hero is all-In [$20.25]
Final Pot: $70.50
Results in white below:
Estrop has Ac As (full house, aces full of sevens).
Hero has 7c 7d (four of a kind, sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins $70.50.
Worked out great, but I feel I could've made a move on the turn as I could get no action on the river if Estrop has a slightly worse hand. What do you think?
P.S. Sorry Estrop!  |
Last edited by dwarfman on Tue, 28 Jun 2005, 3:16pm; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Tue, 28 Jun 2005, 2:13pm Post subject: Re: Flopped Quads vs Known FTRer
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Flush
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 363
WPP: 89
Location: SoCal
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| dwarfman wrote: | | What do you think? |
Ouch. |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Jun 2005, 2:14pm Post subject:
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Posted: Tue, 28 Jun 2005, 2:14pm Post subject:
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Strike 3
Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 207
WPP: 197
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| Because you checked the flop, normally you bet out I thought you maybe had a 7. When I bet the turn, it confirmed what I thought and I would of check/folded the river. But when the ace hit, I thought no better card could of came and that I'm about to mess you up badly |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Jun 2005, 2:47pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 2654
WPP: 90
Location: Arlington, VA
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I might make a small bet on the flop rather than just checking behind. Opponents with small and middle pairs will probably call, an opponent with a flush draw will probably call, and sometimes players will even call with ace high or overcards in these situations. This builds the pot and also helps conceal your strength a bit. If all your opponents fold, you weren't going to win anything anyways.
On the turn I'd raise the minimum of small or medium-sized bets and just call large ones. On the river I'd obviously be raising and reraising trying to get someone all-in. |
Last edited by dsaxton on Tue, 28 Jun 2005, 11:12pm; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Tue, 28 Jun 2005, 8:42pm Post subject:
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Strike 3
Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 725
WPP: 73
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 5:46pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 624
WPP: 103
Location: Brighton, UK
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estrop why did you play your aa so weakly? was it just to mix your play up somewhat? I ask this cos I play mine pretty much exatcly the same every time. I would of re-raised preflop then lead out the flop with a standard cont bet post flop.
you put your op on a 7 but if you think about it he's not going to have A7 - if he has a 7 he has to have 77, the only hand that can have you beat. |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 5:49pm Post subject:
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Strike 3
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 3289
WPP: 119
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| SinkRox wrote: | | estrop why did you play your aa so weakly? was it just to mix your play up somewhat? I ask this cos I play mine pretty much exatcly the same every time. I would of re-raised preflop then lead out the flop with a standard cont bet post flop. |
I generally play very LAGgy at 6 max, if it's folded to me and I'm on the button, I could be raising to $1 with literally any two cards. Estrop made a good attempt at trying to catch me swinging, but he got unlucky (and failed miserably ). |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 5:56pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 401
WPP: 138
Location: 6MAX-NL - Houston
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| SinkRox wrote: | | if you think about it he's not going to have A7 - if he has a 7 he has to have 77, the only hand that can have you beat. |
 
You saying he should have known he had 77, and layed down his hand? |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 6:49pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 433
WPP: 153
Location: Limbo
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| SinkRox wrote: |
you put your op on a 7 but if you think about it he's not going to have A7 - if he has a 7 he has to have 77, the only hand that can have you beat. |
Folding that river has to be ----------EV, no way you ever put your opponent on quads when you have the second nuts. The only way I make that laydown is if I am god and can see their cards.
Hopefully there was some sarcasm in this line of thinking......  |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 7:50pm Post subject:
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bad luck Estrop...... NOT  |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 7:50pm Post subject:
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Strike 3
Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 207
WPP: 197
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| SinkRox wrote: | estrop why did you play your aa so weakly? was it just to mix your play up somewhat? I ask this cos I play mine pretty much exatcly the same every time. I would of re-raised preflop then lead out the flop with a standard cont bet post flop.
you put your op on a 7 but if you think about it he's not going to have A7 - if he has a 7 he has to have 77, the only hand that can have you beat. |
If you've ever seen dwarfman play 6max, he raises like 90% hands preflop and bets the pot on the flop. If I had reraised he would of slowed down, if he had hit or not. When he checked the flop, I knew he had a 7. So I bet small on the turn just to make sure. If he called that he defiently did and I'd fold the river. But the river looked to give me the best hand, as I thought he had 7x not 77. That's why I pushed after his reraise. |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 7:57pm Post subject:
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Strike 3
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 3289
WPP: 119
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| Estrop wrote: | | SinkRox wrote: | estrop why did you play your aa so weakly? was it just to mix your play up somewhat? I ask this cos I play mine pretty much exatcly the same every time. I would of re-raised preflop then lead out the flop with a standard cont bet post flop.
you put your op on a 7 but if you think about it he's not going to have A7 - if he has a 7 he has to have 77, the only hand that can have you beat. |
If you've ever seen dwarfman play 6max, he raises like 90% hands preflop and bets the pot on the flop. If I had reraised he would of slowed down, if he had hit or not. When he checked the flop, I knew he had a 7. So I bet small on the turn just to make sure. If he called that he defiently did and I'd fold the river. But the river looked to give me the best hand, as I thought he had 7x not 77. That's why I pushed after his reraise. |
Exactly, I could've played this hand a lot better than I did. I'm too used to being unreadable due to the laziness of a standard $25 NL 6 max fish, that I make very obvious plays.  |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 7:58pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 624
WPP: 103
Location: Brighton, UK
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| fair do's i just thought 7x is very unlikely - however taking his play into account then maybe he could of had 67s or 78s. |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 8:08pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 18762
WPP: 81
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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| I'm a limit player and know that this line just SCREAMS either a slow play or bluff. |
Last edited by Fnord on Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 9:05pm; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 8:18pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 1109
WPP: 137
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| Fnord wrote: | | The river re-raise sucks. I'm a limit player and know that this line just SCREAMS either a slow play or bluff. In either case pushing is horrible. |
Are you saying he should have put D on 77? He could have been slowplaying 44,22 or even A7. No ways am I folding a top FH here, and if he was sure D would call why is it wrong to push? |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 8:48pm Post subject:
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LAME HUMOR THAT MAKES FISH LAUGH
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8092
WPP: 75
Location: This room is a good place to be
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| arkana wrote: | | Fnord wrote: | | The river re-raise sucks. I'm a limit player and know that this line just SCREAMS either a slow play or bluff. In either case pushing is horrible. |
Are you saying he should have put D on 77? He could have been slowplaying 44,22 or even A7. No ways am I folding a top FH here, and if he was sure D would call why is it wrong to push? |
No, he's saying that dwarfman could have played his hand much better. It's difficult to get much action from many hands when he plays passively and finally jumps alive on the river.
There are other lines that don't look like he has an Absolute monster, atleast.
EDIT- Like Estrop said, he was prepared to fold AA becuase he figured dm for a 7.
-'rilla |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 9:04pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 18762
WPP: 81
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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| Opps, I didn't notice the FH at the end. Yeah, AA is losing his stack here. |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 9:33pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 953
WPP: 67
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| SinkRox wrote: | estrop why did you play your aa so weakly? was it just to mix your play up somewhat? I ask this cos I play mine pretty much exatcly the same every time. I would of re-raised preflop then lead out the flop with a standard cont bet post flop.
you put your op on a 7 but if you think about it he's not going to have A7 - if he has a 7 he has to have 77, the only hand that can have you beat. |
i fail to understand what the hell you are talking about, he could easily have A7s, 78s, 67s, 79s, 7Ts, and even more hands with a 7 considering he is on the button and he was the one raising not the one calling. you cant put someone on quads unless the board is tripped, if you think you can then you are full of yourself. |
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Posted: Sat, 20 Aug 2005, 4:25pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 115
WPP: 150
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Bad luck Estrop.
It's because God hates you, though. |
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Posted: Sat, 20 Aug 2005, 4:28pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 1117
WPP: 67
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i agree with bair this hand was just..wow, a dream for dm estrop was gonna loose all his buy in on this hand you have to be god not to..i mean its almost impossible to put someone on quads with two on the board
-anto |
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Posted: Sat, 20 Aug 2005, 5:59pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 187
WPP: 177
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| elanto wrote: | its almost impossible to put someone on quads with two on the board
-anto |
Harder still to put them on quads without 2 on the board. |
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Posted: Sat, 20 Aug 2005, 6:13pm Post subject:
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Strike 3
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 3289
WPP: 119
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| face wrote: | | elanto wrote: | its almost impossible to put someone on quads with two on the board
-anto |
Harder still to put them on quads without 2 on the board. |
How so? That's a read I make all the time. |
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Posted: Sat, 20 Aug 2005, 6:20pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 187
WPP: 177
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| dwarfman wrote: | | face wrote: | | elanto wrote: | its almost impossible to put someone on quads with two on the board
-anto |
Harder still to put them on quads without 2 on the board. |
How so? That's a read I make all the time. |
Heh -- hate money?
Seriously, I think you really have to put a standard continuation bet out here. First, estrop and your (semi-conscious) opponents will expect it if that's your usual move after raising preflop. Second, not doing it conveys more information than betting, minimizing the amount of money you'll get on later streets. Third, if you check these kind of flops (where you flop a set or quads or a flush or whatever), you'll get less respect when you are continuing on a stone bluff, and more people playing back at you, which sucks. Finally, any hand paying you off here (overpair, a2, frush draw) will call/raise your flop bet. Only way I think your check is good is if your opponent is the sort of stupid and aggressive player who interprets all checks as weak and bets into them. Estrop is not this sort of player.... |
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Posted: Sat, 20 Aug 2005, 9:17pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 1117
WPP: 67
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| face wrote: | | elanto wrote: | its almost impossible to put someone on quads with two on the board
-anto |
Harder still to put them on quads without 2 on the board. |
very funny actually..not really...what i meant is that i can put someone on quads (still very hard though) when the board has three of the same number...4555T board for example....than when it has 2 of the same number..455AT
-anto |
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Full Tilt Poker FTOPS XIV - Event 10 $300+$22 NL Hold'em
