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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 12:24am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 822
WPP: 73
Location: wisconsin
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well we have been here before, the house passed the internet ban before.
the problem is its attached to such a popular bill, someone would have to have balls of steel in the senate to put a hold/block on it. it doesnt look good. |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 12:28am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 1461
WPP: 122
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
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there is approximately a 100% chance that this bill is passing the senate.
again 2p2 has a long thread on it. It sounds as though the language is relatively harsh, aka much more than just banning credit card transactions. |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 12:29am Post subject:
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Solicitor
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 336
WPP: 47
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| yeah but when they passed it it didnt actually ban it right? but after this it does... am i right? |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 12:29am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 1461
WPP: 122
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
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the music on cspan2 is really appropriate for how i feel
and bearcats, before the bill was on its own. it passed the house, but it was never voted on in the senate.
this time, its already passed the house, and is attached to a bill which will be voted on and passed in the senate. you can watch this 100-0 vote happen on cspan2. |
Last edited by Greedo017 on Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 1:17am; edited 3 times in total
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 12:30am Post subject:
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High Card
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 6
WPP: 325
Location: California-Arizona
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| it still has to pass the senate, which it more than likely will, then i believe it has 270 days for this to take effect according to the bill and hopefully in that time someone will find a way around this fuck up abuse of power. |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 12:34am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 822
WPP: 73
Location: wisconsin
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| Greedo017 wrote: | the music on cspan2 is really appropriate for how i feel
and bearcats, before the bill was on its own. it passed the house, but it was never voted on in the senate.
this time, its already passed the house, and is attached to a bill which will be voted on and passed in the senate. you can watch this 100-0 vote happen on cspan2, it'll be voted on shortly. |
yeah they are keeping session open in the senate just to pass the bill once the house is done. then they are wrapping up for the session, to go campaign.
i suspect a lot more internet sites will close to american consumers soon. |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 12:37am Post subject:
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High Card
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 6
WPP: 325
Location: California-Arizona
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i was gonna say that the music has that evil militant imperialistic, darth vader march feel to it, how appropriate.
well, see y'all on the play money tables.. good night? |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 1:03am Post subject:
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Two Pair
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 29
WPP: 175
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<- I really hate this guy. Well I am going to bed sorry to be the bringer of bad news but it looks like are chances of the online gambling prohibition not passing are very dismial. I feel we have I have better odds of flopping a royal flush.
Good night all |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 1:13am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 1461
WPP: 122
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
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| just FYI i was unclear, there is and never was a senate vote after the senate received the bill. the senate voted that the bill be passed as soon as it was received from the house. |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 1:16am Post subject:
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Solicitor
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 336
WPP: 47
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| Greedo017 wrote: | | just FYI i was unclear, there is and never was a senate vote after the senate received the bill. the senate voted that the bill be passed as soon as it was received from the house. |
so the senate said they would automatically pass if it passed through the house? |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 1:16am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 1461
WPP: 122
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 1:36am Post subject:
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Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6600
WPP: 74
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| Will online poker be banned forever? |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 1:38am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 1461
WPP: 122
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 2:16am Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 176
WPP: 71
Location: NYC
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| does this include casino whoring?? |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 2:25am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 1461
WPP: 122
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
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yes.
I will summarize everything, for the benefit of those who live under rocks in particular.
Bill Frist successfully got language banning online gambling into a bill which was passed tonight. This would cover all forms of online gambling except for betting on horses and the lottery. It will actually take effect when the president signs it in a week or two. While the actual effect won't be known for a while, and likely no enforcement will happen for months, it appears very robust. It can definitely stop credit cards, neteller, and pretty much any other method of getting money online, and has somewhat limited ability to force ISP's to not host online gambling related material on their servers, but exactly what will happen won't be known for a little while. |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 3:00am Post subject:
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{NSFW - nipple}
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 2186
WPP: 107
Location: The Loser's Lounge
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So if this ISP banning doesn't happen which I think is very unlikely they will pursue that angle. Does that mean you guys will still be able to play on your accounts? And then transfer your money to a turstworthy Canadian who can still make financial transactions with the site and then get your money to you for a reasonable fee?
Just curious... |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 5:53am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1715
WPP: 58
Location: UK
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| Greedo017 wrote: | yes.
Bill Frist successfully got language banning online gambling into a bill which was passed tonight. This would cover all forms of online gambling except for betting on horses and the lottery. |
I'm from the UK, but still, I'd like to express how awful I feel for you guys out there. That bill looks like it's taking the fucking piss.. Online poker banned, yet betting on horses allowed? Surely people are more likely to lose all their money betting on horses, as it is so dramatically -EV?
In fact, I don't see why they want to ban online gambling... seriously, what's the problem with it? Who's kicking up a stink about poker, yet not doing the same about horse racing? |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 6:09am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 504
WPP: 124
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I think we should consider the effects this will have on poker in general...
If online poker is not available to recreational poker players, I think poker will lose major popularity over time and only the more top players will remain making it harder to make money... thoughts? |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 6:10am Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 176
WPP: 71
Location: NYC
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| thank god i am moving next year!! Oh Canada... |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 6:20am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Posts: 492
WPP: 41
Location: Huddersfield, England
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| That's so fucked up, i hope they come to their senses soon. |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 7:56am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 3749
WPP: 81
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 8:41am Post subject:
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Not a thinking person
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 2425
WPP: 138
Location: My ice is polarized
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| gabe wrote: | | wow this changes my future in a not so positive way | |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 8:42am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 832
WPP: 72
Location: On the grind
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Damn those politicians in America sure are douchebags.
I hope this is just a bad dream that will end soon.
Edit: found this on NWP
Will new Anti-Gambling Law survive Judicial review
That's the real question here ...
Our congressmen and senators (not to mention our President)
occasionally pass new laws - or "interpret" existing laws - in ways
which fail to withstand judicial review. The latest notable example of
this is the "Hamdan versus United States" case decided by the United
States Supreme Court. The court ruled that President Bush could not
deny protections afforded under Article 3 of the Geneva Convention to
terrorist suspects held as detainees.
If this new bill does "shut down" or seriously impede internet poker,
you can bet that at least one (if not all) of these off-shore sites
will band together and challenge the new law in court. There are
probably several good grounds on which an argument can be based. One
that comes to mind immediately is the question of jurisdiction, since
most of these sites are based outside the United States. I'm not a
lawyer or a legal expert, but I'm not sure if the United States
government can restrict or impede a U.S. citizen from conducting
Commerce with a foreign business entity - provided such Commerce is not
a threat to our national security. This new law could be overturned on
the jurisdictional issue alone.
There are other possible avenues of appeal as well, but I won't go into
them here. Suffice it to say that with as much as 10 BILLION DOLLARS
of revenue coming from the U.S. market, the owners of PartyGaming,
PokerStars, and all the other internet operators are not going to throw
their hands up in the air and concede defeat. (Or at least not without
a fight.)
I'm sure there is a small army of lawyers and legal experts who already
have the first draft of a complaint at least 90 percent drafted. The
first appeal will probably be filed in a federal court the day after
President Bush signs the bill into law. Then the long review process
will start and we'll see where it goes. There will probably be an
attempt to obtain a temporary restraining order against enforcement of
the law while it is under review. If such a request is granted, then
the sites can continue to operate while the law is being reviewed.
I have a feeling that the legality of internet poker for people here in
the United States will ultimately be decided by nine men and women
wearing black robes. If five of those men and women decide the
Congress acted improperly, then the right of Americans to play poker on
the internet will be protected - at least for awhile. It ain't over
until the folks in the black robes sing ...
Alan C. Lawhon
Huntsville, Alabama |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 8:51am Post subject:
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Two Pair
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 38
WPP: 81
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 10:03am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 504
WPP: 124
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"His co-sponsor the Democrat senator Richard Bryan from Nevada, warned: "By the year 2000, 15 million kids will have access to the Internet. If Internet gambling is allowed to flourish, every one of these kids will have access to gambling,""
Do all senators draft bills about things they have no knowledge of? |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 12:33pm Post subject:
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Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6600
WPP: 74
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| If it comes down to the supreme court i think we will win. |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 12:38pm Post subject:
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Almost as bad as that idiot heybude
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 3068
WPP: 71
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That really ticks me off. Instead of taking measures to protect under-aged children from participating in online gambling, the government decides to try and ban it altogether.
The thing is, the "children issue" is not even the fucking reason. It's because the United States is losing billions of dollars every year to these sites. They want to stop it.
These idiots in government don't understand that some parents actually give a shit about their kids and will prevent them from gambling when they are too young. It's just an insult to the American people. |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 12:43pm Post subject:
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Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6600
WPP: 74
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I'd like to know what is next for online poker players?
1. Is there a loophole if this bill is in fact enacted? Can anyone confirm that loophole?
2. Anyone know a lawyer who can tell us what he thinks is going to happen here?
3. Is everyone just going to enjoy poker for the next 3/4 of a year?
4. What are people going to do who are involved in an online poker website buisness? Aok?
5. WTF will happen to FTR?
6. WTF WILL WE ALL DO WITH OUR LIVES! |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 1:26pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 1461
WPP: 122
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
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I'll answer these b/c i've read a lot on 2p2 and think i have a pretty good idea of the answers.
| IowaSkinsFan wrote: | | 1. Is there a loophole if this bill is in fact enacted? Can anyone confirm that loophole? |
too soon to say. speculation says probably, though it might be a bit shady even so. but it will most likely be difficult enough that the typical american player won't bother.
| IowaSkinsFan wrote: | | 2. Anyone know a lawyer who can tell us what he thinks is going to happen here? |
this is out of my reach. 2p2 people's opinions range from it will have a significant impact but will survive somewhat reasonably, to it is the end of online poker in america. my personal opinion is online poker is over.
| IowaSkinsFan wrote: | | 3. Is everyone just going to enjoy poker for the next 3/4 of a year? |
hopefully. keep up on things though, as it won't necessarily be this long. it would really suck to see your neteller eft denied when you weren't expecting it.
| IowaSkinsFan wrote: | | 4. What are people going to do who are involved in an online poker website buisness? Aok? |
stop making money?
| IowaSkinsFan wrote: | | 5. WTF will happen to FTR? |
less people will come here, there will be no more ads linking to online poker sites. aka, the profitability of this site will drop dramatically.
| IowaSkinsFan wrote: | | 6. WTF WILL WE ALL DO WITH OUR LIVES! |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 2:40pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 822
WPP: 73
Location: wisconsin
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I have read a lot on 2 + 2 as well, and what Green says reflects what the consensus of the thoughtful posters over there are saying.
Online poker will still exist for the non-americans, however. Probably in a much less profitable form.
The statute says that regulations must be in place within 270 days of it turning to law. Could be sooner in reality. It also starts a task force to monitor gambling related money laundering. They have really thought of everything in this bill. I have got my funds moving back to my bank account, as i dont want them to get stuck.
Am i being over cautious? Yes. But what recourse would we have after the president signs the bill and then neteller or the poker sites seize our funds? |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 3:06pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 464
WPP: 122
Location: Love me for a season
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This absolutely sucks.
I'm English but this pretty much doesn't matter in a world where the poker infrastructure is defined by Americans.
This is probably gonna affect the game to the extent where it may as well be banned over here anyway. |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 3:13pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 3614
WPP: 52
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| This will affect so many people/groups...Televised Tourneys (ESPN, WPT, etc...), TV commercials, pros and semi-pro people who pay for bills/food/etc. with poker money, sites such as Neteller/Firepay, the actual poker sites, poker magazines - It's ridiculous really. I can't imagine Neteller/Firepay and/or Party/Stars not putting up a fight about it. How on earth can it be acceptible to ban Americans from putting money into Neteller??? If the sites accept PayPal in the future will they then ban Americans from that as well? There are so many companies/people impacted by this, and there is so much money at stake that I can't believe that all of these comapnies/people will just bend over and take it with no fight whatsoever. Maybe this is just my heart talking though... |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 3:14pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3603
WPP: 99
Location: Your place or my place
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| $100 says this makes online poker more popular. Discuss. |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 3:26pm Post subject:
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Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6600
WPP: 74
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| euphoricism wrote: | | $100 says this makes online poker more popular. Discuss. |
Please make your points... |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 3:29pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 3614
WPP: 52
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| illegal music/movie downloading is going pretty strong... |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 3:30pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 464
WPP: 122
Location: Love me for a season
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| euphoricism wrote: | | $100 says this makes online poker more popular. Discuss. |
The plot thickens!
Seriously though, no. Wishful thinking. |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 3:54pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 3614
WPP: 52
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| any publicity is good publicity??? |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 4:50pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 822
WPP: 73
Location: wisconsin
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 5:01pm Post subject:
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Radmin
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 5241
WPP: 91
Location: facebook.com/xianti
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I'm posting all relevant links to news articles (as opposed to other speculative forum discussions) here:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/forum/poker-44325.htm
Please add links to new developments in that thread above.
It's all speculation at this point, but let's try to consolidate the news articles into that thread. |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 5:25pm Post subject:
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11 OF DIAMONDS
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 4381
WPP: 117
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
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| What we should do is just give the government AK and we'll take TT and go allin preflop. Whoever wins, gets to decide if it passes. |
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Posted: Sat, 30 Sep 2006, 5:30pm Post subject:
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Radmin
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 5241
WPP: 91
Location: facebook.com/xianti
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FTR Everest Poker Mini-League - Leaderboard Results
