Drive to $100NL (still the same thread)

*Last edited by jyms on Tue, 09 Oct 2007, 1:28am; edited 7 times in total*

OK, bare with me. This may get a little long. It's basically going to be a blog by some guy who has sucked at poker up until Oct.1st/2006. This will be monotonous and slow for the action junkies and people looking for advice, but I could use a few regulars to pop in and give me shit or tell me i'm right once in a while when things go bad.

Basically, This is going to be my poker concience. Every poster on FTR that has a blog is doing good things at the tables and with thier bankroll. I have had some problems in the past with distractions and feeling rushed leading to bad Bankroll Management. Not to the effect of having my whole roll on the table, but as an example, I have played at party in the past on the $25NL tables with $300 and had a bad run. Alot of the times I play at too high a stake just to clear a Bonus that I should not have even attempted because of not having the full deposit and wasting $$$. (i.e: Ultimatebets super slow Bonus) I have wasted time and money chasing a bankroll. All my attempts have been successful for a short period but the variance is too much. I read about guys like Biondino hanging around too long at a limit and killing it. I wish that is was what I did at the beginning to just keep grinding the roll but that's in the past.

Here's what I hope to accomplish with this thread and poker in general.

>Stop playing out of my roll.
I know this is wrong, no matter how good you think you are, because the swings and short term variance is a killer.

>Get my bankroll up to $500 to play $25NL properly rolled.
This may take a while, but in order to feel that I'm actually winning this will be my first magic number.

>Play 20+ hours a week.
This is not a major problem with winter coming and and agreement I have with the wife.

>Start posting some hands and get some input into my play.
instead of having to rely on myself all the time. I also want to start spending more time in the stategy forum than the commune.

>move the computer desk out of the living room
If I'm going to do this, I'm going to get serious and give myself the right enviroment.

I will add to this post as my goals change or if I come up with anymore.

History:
Started at Party Poker with $50. (wasted the first deposit Bonus and busted) I did alright but should have been on the $2NL tables not the $25NL but I thought you played higher and dropped if needed. Bankroll Management????? What's that.

Wanted to try again so I thought, what the hell PokerStars has a $20 min. deposit and $5 S&G's plus $1 tournies. I attempted that and had no Idea how these guys were killing me at the lowest limits and could not beat anybody in a tournement. You guys know the drill, I don't need to explain how I played, you've all seen it.

Last chance. I decided to learn a little about the game. I new that there had to be advantages to certain plays and styles. Hell I'm not that stupid. I knew how a casino loaded the games for an advantage by manipulating odds, but poker is against other players, the casino doesn't have cards to play so they can't effect the winning, somebody has to win. I hate gambling but this was different, it's like a sport, a game or any other competition, I'm playing morons. So like everything I do, " I become obsessed with learning". I google "Poker Strategy" and find several sites to read, (you know what they all are) and FTR sticks out because it's the same look as my Bodybuilding and Nutrition site. (still can't read 2+2 unless someone links an article)

So I read and read and then "I got it", Bankroll Management, pot odds, preflop hand selection and what the hell c-bets are. I deposited another $100 into Party Poker in March and get to $350 and start moving up to fast. Long story short.( Ya, Ya, I know) I've been to UltimateBet, Pacific, Paradise, party, PokerStars and now Prima trying to get my bankroll up. I've been too quick to get into another Bonus. I deposit with less than maximum wasting a good Bonus, just to try and get my roll up. It's been a rollercoaster of not clearing bonuses, playing a little above my roll and riding a coaster. I've managed to buy Poker Tracker, PAhud, Handgrabber and still have just under $200 again in my bankroll. So yea, that's it in a nut shell, one big fucking nutshell.

So if your still with me, you won't have to read that again, I need your help, I promised the wife that:
>I'd finish the bathroom that I demolished down to the 2x4's and floor joists in april and have just the tiling and paint left to do.
> I'd have a thousand dollars to withdraw at Xmas time for gifts instead of our own money or quit because I obviously suck.
>Get her, her own computer so I don't need to get off mine.

And in return she will not bother me about the time I spend playing as long as things are taken care of at home.

ka; dr

play in your bankroll, study the game, get rich

repeat to yourself.

if u stay as focused as u sound, then those goals will be met!! unfortunately with those kinda withdrawals (purchases) u will never go beyond NL25!! i would hold off until ur atleast to NL50 w/ a bankroll of atleast $1200 before u consider any withdrawals!!

P.S- for a quick extra $300+ why dont u Casino Whore the top 3 - minimum risk casinos for their 100% matching Bonus??
1) Starluck
2) PlanetLuck
3) C.O.N

*Last edited by jyms on Fri, 29 Sep 2006, 1:29pm; edited 1 time in total*

So here is where I started.

$50 initial deposit at Party Poker.
$20 first deposit at PokerStars.
$100 second deposit at PartyPoker.
$50 on Poker Tracker
$25 on PAHud
$15 on handgrabber

$260 total spent on poker.

$175 bankroll on Prima(River Belle)
leaves me $85 in the red as we speak.

As of right now I just busted out doing the deposit Bonus on Gaming Club casino, in my first attempt at whoring casinos. that's one reason my roll is so small. I withdrew $50 a couple of days ago to try this. Not a great first attempt. I tried to autoplay thru the 90X $200 Bonus for $50 deposit and busted with 1k hands to go, playing Las vegas BJ, after reaching over $300 before bed last night. These are the things that have killed my roll before and what has prompted me to start this responsibility thread. Give me shit or tell me to try again. There are two more I want to try badly. PlanetLuck and Starluck. I need black jack games with auto play, incase you didn't read my long, original thread where i mention I hate gambling. I'd rather play bingo than black jack or any other gambling game.

I will post some stats from PT when I get home tonight and maybe a hand or two. I plan on playing 600+ hands tonight 4 tabling Prima and maybe a tourney. This has been a problem for me in the past though. I can 6 table full ring or 4 table 6 max, but when i get into tourneys I don't pay attention enough. Without checking stats I can guestimate I finish ITM 50% of the time in big tourneys and 30% of the time in 1 and 2 table S&G's and haven't figured out where I should play. I love the tournements and S&G's but don't always have the time for them, that's why I play ring, I think I'm better at ring at the moment and I think thats where the money is but I think to much. That's why I need to get this thread started. The problem will be If I win a big score in a tourney i will probably end up playing higher stakes without working up to it and the winnings may be short lived.

You guys are quick. Thanks. I just typed my second post and already have 3 replies. My last post should answer a few questions but to reply, I have only withdrew to buy poker programs that I thought I needed. As for the casino seoul_child I've already addressed it in my second post. What do you suggest now, continue or wait for a little cushion.

WOW, I dont know what casino that was to charge u 90x the Bonus, that's insane man! I would cushion ur roll once again in whateva means that has been working for you, and then when u have an investment of $100 again do Starluck, PlanetLuck, and CON in that order. Very minimal risk involved with those casino whorings and Star/Planet have very low wagering requirement (9x-->($100= $200) u need to wager $1800 to withdraw. Use the wizardofodds.com BJ chart and get yourself some moneys!!! Best Of Luck

It was because it's only allowing 33% of the wager on black jack to count towards the Bonus (It's actually a 30x casino Bonus.) They had autoplay so without getting to deep into it it's $200 Bonus for $50 deposit and I was told with the HA of 0.4% it's ev is around $128. even with these T&C's.

BAD casino!!! do the ones i stated or rather follow along with my Post --- seoul_child1's Casino Whoring Journey, i will give all pertinent info. needed and u can see my results. First 3 casinos i do should be +EV of $300+ ;]

T_J, PM/AIM me any time if you want to discuss the concepts that work at 25NL, even if I'm not quite "killing it" as you kindly stated!

(I can say with Absolute certainty that WITH DISCIPLINE you will become a winning $50NL player by Xmas and you should be able to make $2k, allowing you to withdraw $1k for Xmas, without any problem. In fact. I'd happily make a wager to this effect - you are one of the sharpest beginners I've read on FTR)

Good luck T_J, I'm sure you'll soon get back to $25NL and then will be kicking its butt.

Hope things go well for you on Prima, there's a few bonuses out there to grab, but they do take a while at $10NL (pfft... take a while at $20NL). But Prima hates me, so I'm biased.

As soon as you're rolled for $25NL I'd seriously suggest going to the CryptoLogic network (which is where Biondino did/does his killing... and yes mate, we've seen your stats, it's called "killing").
It's amazing what a difference Bonus+Rakeback makes to the old roll. If you can play 15k hands a month there you'll probably be getting an extra $350 (do that in November/Decmber and you're a ways towards your grand without touching your roll).

Either take Sun Poker (FTR's link) or Poker Plex (PM me for details there).

I play $1/2 limit these days (and I admit it's not going so well at the tables) but I've whored over $600 off Crypto this month with another $150 coming in Rakeback off 11k hands (would be about 16k hands @ $25NL).

Thanks Anosmic. I have a Bonus I'm clearing here but I will grind my roll up a bit here first before attempting anymore tricks. I think it's time for grinding out hands and stopping leaks.
Here's my first day of my new disciplined poker playing. I had a few good hands and played well. Got unlucky and got stacked a couple of times. It's tuff at $10NL, they can actually have anything. Guys will push with TPNK or have a nut flush, you never seem to know. Here's an example.

** Game ID 963482656 starting - 2006-09-29 19:54:42
** Beckenham [Hold 'em] (0.05|0.10 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money
- clarky666 sitting in seat 1 with $42.04 [Sitting out]
- ryby184 sitting in seat 2 with $3.05 [Dealer]
- trainerJyms sitting in seat 3 with $9.75
- P-Funk27 sitting in seat 4 with $3.24
- iamtehnoob sitting in seat 5 with $11.20
- Stamang sitting in seat 6 with $26.29

trainerJyms posted the small blind - $0.05
P-Funk27 posted the big blind - $0.10
** Dealing card to trainerJyms: Queen of Hearts

iamtehnoob raised - $0.30
Stamang called - $0.30
ryby184 called - $0.30
trainerJyms raised - $0.50
P-Funk27 called - $0.50
iamtehnoob went all-in - $10.90
Stamang folded
ryby184 folded
trainerJyms went all-in - $9.30
P-Funk27 went all-in - $2.84

** Dealing the flop: Three of Hearts

,

,

** Dealing the turn: Eight of Diamonds

** Dealing the river: Six of Hearts

trainerJyms shows: Queen of Hearts

,

iamtehnoob mucks:
P-Funk27 mucks:
trainerJyms wins $10.32 from the main pot
trainerJyms wins $23.24 from side pot 1

So I succesfully stayed at $10NL for 1K hands tonight, and it was a little tough. Everytime your down you want to chase it back up. And the raises scare the b-gesus out of these guys. I need to settle down on the moves, play the board, play position and bet my hands. I let a couple of guys chase for cheap and it cost me. Nevermind the times I made them pay and they still chase. I know it's not supposed to bother me but damn.
** Game ID 963709984 starting - 2006-09-29 23:13:30
** Beckenham [Hold 'em] (0.05|0.10 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- SuperDavey87 sitting in seat 1 with $9.90
- Birqis sitting in seat 2 with $13.22 [Dealer]
- jules2420 sitting in seat 3 with $16.33
- konakidgb sitting in seat 4 with $16.17
- Parsifal sitting in seat 5 with $3.55
- trainerJyms sitting in seat 6 with $24.95

jules2420 posted the small blind - $0.05
konakidgb posted the big blind - $0.10
SuperDavey87 posted to play - $0.10
** Dealing card to trainerJyms: Eight of Spades

,

Parsifal folded
trainerJyms called - $0.10
SuperDavey87 checked
Birqis folded
jules2420 folded
konakidgb checked

** Dealing the flop: Nine of Diamonds

,

,

konakidgb checked
trainerJyms checked ( I checked because it was a rainbow flop an dI wanted some one to have something to chase with, Is this a bad play?)
SuperDavey87 checked

** Dealing the turn: Two of Diamonds

konakidgb bet - $0.10
trainerJyms raised - $1.60 ( $0.30 pot so I overbet thinking that I need to get the money in before they all mis the river and I waste this set.)
SuperDavey87 called - $1.60
konakidgb called - $1.60

** Dealing the river: Four of Diamonds

konakidgb checked
trainerJyms bet - $4.85
SuperDavey87 went all-in - $8.30
konakidgb folded
trainerJyms called - $8.30 ( I call because I have a set, I can't lay this down, can i?? Why would he call that turn bet with a draw?? Oh ya $10NL. Rolling Eyes

)
SuperDavey87 shows: Six of Diamonds

,

trainerJyms mucks: Eight of Spades

,

SuperDavey87 wins $21.45 from the main pot

End of game 963709984

Also here's my rollercoaster from last night. Anybody know why imageshack is not letting me get a full sized image anymore??

Anyway it's 2 am I'm going to bed, I'll continue this in the morning.

Slowplaying is almost always wrong, you should have made a psb on the flop here I think. Get the money in the pot when you're ahead Wink

Good luck Trainer, I'm on the same road so I'll be keeping track of this thread. I'm also beginning to get serious about my workout routine too, I just picked up Arnold Schwarzenegger's Encyclopedia to bodybuilding and started on its beginner schedule.

So here we go. The weekend was a disaster. I withdrew $100 to start casino whoring. Had $82 left after Fridays debacle. I stayed at the $10NL tables 4 tabling and was riding a rollercoaster, divided up amongst stacking and getting stacked on some bad beats all weekend.

Here's one, Villiand has C-bet every flop he gets to.

** Game ID 967117911 starting - 2006-10-01 22:13:34
** Epimachus [Hold 'em] (0.05|0.10 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- ColdFeats sitting in seat 1 with $15.12
- Pickeljoe sitting in seat 2 with $35.71
- trainerJyms sitting in seat 3 with $10.61 [Dealer]
- rollande65 sitting in seat 4 with $8.17
- zoquete sitting in seat 5 with $9.75
- budfather sitting in seat 6 with $11.57
- BigluckAA sitting in seat 7 with $0.60
- dezzaw sitting in seat 8 with $1.00 [Sitting out]
- Greiner sitting in seat 9 with $5.82
- Piotr6660 sitting in seat 10 with $9.40

rollande65 posted the small blind - $0.05
zoquete posted the big blind - $0.10
Pickeljoe posted to play - $0.10
** Dealing card to trainerJyms: Queen of Hearts, Ace of Hearts
budfather called - $0.10
BigluckAA folded
Greiner folded
Piotr6660 folded
ColdFeats raised - $0.40
Pickeljoe called - $0.40
trainerJyms raised - $0.70
rollande65 called - $0.70
zoquete folded
budfather folded
ColdFeats called - $0.70
Pickeljoe called - $0.70

** Dealing the flop: 4 of Spades, 2 of Spades, Queen of Diamonds
rollande65 checked
ColdFeats bet - $3.00
Pickeljoe folded
trainerJyms raised - $6.00
rollande65 folded
ColdFeats went all-in - $11.42
trainerJyms went all-in - $3.91

** Dealing the turn: 6 of Diamonds

** Dealing the river: 6 of Hearts
trainerJyms shows: Queen of Hearts, Ace of Hearts
ColdFeats shows: Queen of Clubs, 6 of Clubs
ColdFeats wins $22.52 from the main pot

And another for your funny bone. Was this a bad call by me to get this all -in at these stakes

** Game ID 945873396 starting - 2006-09-18 23:38:39
** Bellingham [Hold 'em] (0.05|0.10 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- trainerJyms sitting in seat 1 with $18.55
- derekNUTSm sitting in seat 2 with $12.19
- deadmoney_18 sitting in seat 3 with $10.00 [Sitting out]
- rocket2A sitting in seat 4 with $2.50 [Dealer]
- I_Cash_Out sitting in seat 6 with $7.60

I_Cash_Out posted the small blind - $0.05
trainerJyms posted the big blind - $0.10
** Dealing card to trainerJyms: King of Diamonds, King of Hearts
derekNUTSm raised - $0.80
rocket2A folded
I_Cash_Out folded
trainerJyms raised - $1.50
derekNUTSm called - $1.50

** Dealing the flop: 8 of Hearts, 10 of Spades, Jack of Spades
trainerJyms bet - $3.70
derekNUTSm went all-in - $10.69
trainerJyms called - $10.69

** Dealing the turn: Jack of Diamonds

** Dealing the river: 7 of Clubs
derekNUTSm shows: King of Spades, Jack of Hearts
trainerJyms mucks: King of Diamonds, King of Hearts
derekNUTSm wins $24.13 from the main pot

My weekend was a disaster and I had $65 left in River Belle. $100 in Neteller and I have a casino Bonus going great. I'll let ya know how it goes.

I do win some money too. I hit up the free 200 at platinum casino and got real lucky on the slots. They give you a free $200 to start and you have to wager the full amount once on the slots before putting it into a Bonus. If you have over $200 after you get the full $200 as a Bonus on a $20 deposit. I actually hit a rolling jackpot and got to $485 but they only give you $200. Then its a 30x clearing Bonus like all the others but you just deposit $20. If you don't get the full $200 they have a match Bonus for you instead, up to $100. Anyway after getting the full $200 and my deposit of $20 I had to clear it. I let Blackjack Auto play for me all night but it only cleared $30 bucks because it clears at 2%. bastards. but my roll was at about $250 so I just cleared it at roulette. I bet $10 on black and red and hit the green a couple of times after a couple hundred auto spins. I cashed $218. Hope I get away with that. I no one could tell me if they would bitch about the roulette trick to clear a Bonus.

So my total bankroll is at about $320. Not a great start. I busted another casino Bonus. It's time to try the big three. I took more roll from River Belle so now I have $65 left to play. I started playing $2.50 S&G's at River Belle and have done ok. They are pretty easy. If you play like a nit, and play maybe two hands and get about half a stack from someone, your in the final three. I may do these for a while. I'm having a hard time Isolating guys in ring. It seems that every hand someone is drawing to the flush. I got my aces cracked last night on a three way all-in pre flop with two guys flipping over 3s,6s and 7d, td and doesn't the Diamond hit the flush for one but the 3, 6 spades gets the boat. Just getting stomped. I think part of the problem is playing for the big win. I was doing some calculations last night after taking some bad beats. And If I make 30bb/100 (pretty good rate) over 1000 hands that would be 300 bb or 30 dollars. ( I think I may not be playing for that pace. I need to stop trying to win stacks at every table every hand I VP$P. At 6max I would need to make 1.8bb in an orbit (net). THAT"S THE FUCKING BLINDS. Am I wrong? Am I working too hard? 1.8 BB every 2 orbits at $10NL is $0.36, at $20NL its $0.72!! I know I'd have to make up for the times I miss and the times I bet preflop, and the times I lose at showdown, but my pace is off. I've been aiming much higher. I'm going to shoot for "slow and steady and not stack off without the near nuts. Tell everyone at Prima $10NL I'm a folding machine. This explains to me why my poker trends never looks like all the others I see (one side of the mountain going up with a few bumps. Look at mine above, they all look like that. I will post some of my stats when i get home so I can start getting some input. I think for now, while trying to build the roll I won't worry about missing out on some edges and just stick to the basics. I know, I know Embarassed

TJ, send me some HHs. However, one thing I immediately notice is your min-re-raise in the AQ hand - that's a leak right there. Not only will everyone call that raise (if they don't re-raise you - in which case you're folding, or calling when probably behind), but AQ isn't all that strong a hand especially against more than one opponent. If you re-raise here you have to slam it up to $1.50 or so - but I might be tempted to just call here and dump it on an unhelpful flop.

Thanks, I will send some. I wanted to post more hands but the Poker Tracker hands from Prima are hard to convert. As for the re-raise, I think I get caught alot playing the wrong game. If my raises start getting folded back around to, I tend to lower my raises for my better hands to get callers. I do the same with open raises. I may have betting tells then, after frustration sets in I only raise large with marginal hands because a fold around would be ok for a steal. After figuring out some of the things I wrote about above, I'm just gonna keep pumping them. I don't really need to get callers and try to bust them with every premium hand. Sometimes 10 or 12 BB is goot.

Thanks Gutshot, it works perfectly. That will keep my posts down in size and make the hands easier to analize. Biondino, I looked for some hands to send you from my last few sessions and I find lots wrong with them. I wonder why I did the things I know are wrong, instead of what the hell I'm doing on alot of costly hands. I may have to slow down a little and either;

A) play less tables
B) Play full ring again (Jackvance called me a nit on one of my tables the other day)
C) Stop trying to win on every hand I play. I need to fold more that is for sure.

This is all my 10NL at Prima

This is my 20NL at Prima. This was right in the middle of my 10NL venture. I started with $200 when I signed up and have cleared exactly $20 dollars.

Here's the whole primachalada

Tell me, Is this the way to win at micro stakes?? I think I have too many big pots and the variance is killing me.

Here's the last one tonight, It's my stats.

So I'm not gonna play till this casino Bonus is put into Neteller. I may pull out of River Belle and find another site to whore. Problem is the limts I play. SunPoker is looking good to me right now. I know that Rakeback is not going to be huge, but at $25NL which I will be back at by the end of the month will be helpful and better than some of the bonuses at this level. In 16 days and with no effort I paid $100 in rake and I only played 7000 hands. I can double that with little effort in a month. This doesn't include tourneys and S&G's rake because tracker doesn't work on Prima for them.

Lastly, can anyone tell me why imageshack is only giving clickable thumbnails now. Is it just because ot the free account Is there another site to use to make these full size

Post more hands, man. Those graphs are gonna do nothing to improve your game and just generally piss you off looking at them.

I've put in 10k at Prima 20nl 6max and it can be frustrating at times, but it's very beatable. You may want to tighten up for a bit and then add some hands back in once you get more comfortable. I'm running at 19.5/11 since starting 20nl and it seems to be a comfortable range for me.

Post more hands. I will look at them and try to help out since I'm playing those games right now.

PS - You aren't using imageshack to host, it's linking to theimagehosting.com. You can use the FTR Gallery and then link those pics in your posts too, but save the graphs til they turn around. Wink

[quote="Trainer_jyms"]
C) Stop trying to win on every hand I play. I need to fold more that is for sure. /quote]

This looks to me like the key point. It's something we all do from time to time, but not only is it bad in itself, but it devalues the bluffs you make, you make more of them to try and win the cash back, and you end up losing several stacks. Even at 6max it's okay to sit back and tighten up if you find this happening; it's okay to check/fold AK if you mis the flop; it's okay to believe a donk bet on a dry flop. Remeber, the less you bet, the more you'll be believed when you do (NB this may not be the case at $10NL).

Smallball is fine but it's the big hands and the big wins that will give you 80% of your profit - don't risk large proportions of your stack on small pots.

So here's a few from last night. These are my biggest and winners and losers. Depending on the feedback I'm getting I will post hands that approach those problems I need to work on.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?544395 On the first hand, I only min raised after twice raising bigger and having it folded around to me. I was hoping for a reraise. As for slowplaying I had trip Aces and was hoping to let someone catch up a bit. The river bet is just if he had the J I'm gonna pay him, I'm not folding a boat.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?544396 On this hand, What can ya say, Maybe a higher reraise preflop, but I wasn't getting this guy off his hand he was 85/20 at 100 hands and was luckboxing the table

http://www.pokerhand.org/?544397 Just a typical, on the button, call cheap, and hit the hand. AMIWrong?

http://www.pokerhand.org/?544398 I have no idea what I was to do with this hand. KJo scares me, It's one of my biggest losers on PT. I had a history of going to far with TPMK and getting either rivered or not seeing the set, because i'd try to get too much money in with a pair. This hand is a tough one for me to play.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?544399 On this hand with a player like that at the table, I just didn't want to start waiving my arms or making any sudden moves and scaring them away. I had the hand and just let them come along for a ride, but can you play wrong against someone "Calling" all in on a turn card, with A high.

Sorry about the links, I can't get a hand history to convert from Prima, off of Poker Tracker. If anybody has any other Ideas, let me know.

Lastly, am I the only one who is an overall loser on 1 pair hands in Poker Tracker? If I was to never play a one pair hand, I'd be a winning player by a long shot. I'm at work right now and can't post the summary numbers. Since it includes folded hands, not just hands taken to showdown, what's other players stats. Is this supposed to be a losing number or should I stop playing 1 pair hands? I know this can't happen but can this stat be in the green? I definitely feel this is a big leak of mine, losing alot of money on single pairs.

The KJ hand shouldn't be tough. Fold preflop. If you play it, raise it as it's a terrible multi-way hand. As you played it, you hit TP, nice job, so bet properly to push out drawing hands. You want to win this hand on the flop. If you then get called, slow down unless you improve.

The last hand amply demonstrates why you should be able to own $10NL.

Do you suggest playing as tight as folding KJo in the cutoff at 10NL 6max?? I would have no problem with this since , like I said, this hand is a big loser for me. I actually started playing this hand as only a drawing hand. This was one of the rare times I didn't.

Folding it to a raise? Yes. Unless you have a read that this guy raises with crap (or is very tight/weak on the flop, or his minrasies mean especially weak hands) then yes, fold KJ. It beats no other premium hands and isn't a great drawing hand.

So, using what has been said here about my raising and isolating. It's working well. Friday night I had a bad run of cards and by bad run I mean I lost about 2.5 buy-ins inspite of hitting both my first royal flush and first two str8 flushes in the same session.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?550934

http://www.pokerhand.org/?550932

http://www.pokerhand.org/?550928

With these hands all you can do is hope someone has a monster and bets back at you. I was hoping someone would have a flush at least and think they have the pot. I had a hard time on friday night extracting any cash off guys and when you see the chart you can tell that I got ansy and started to bet at pots without the goods. I got used to the higher raising requirements after about a thousand hands and climbed out of the hole. I played close to 4k hands this weekend and that's with going out to two turkey dinners. (It was canadian thanksgiving)

Here's my weekend rollercoaster. ther first 500 hands are actually the slide from thursday night. (to the bottom of the first slide)Other than a couple of stackings on some questionable calls. I think I got it figured out. I still give guys too much credit for not chasing flushes after large preflop raises, overbetting the pot after the flop and still betting 2/3 the pot after the turn that when that third suited card comes on the river, they can't possibly have chased the flush after all that. But my str8 or two pair never holds up. they always have the flush. It's an interesting thing at 10 and 25NL. they fold up like cheap tents when the board flushes no matter what has happened before that or how much money they have invested, but they will chase a flush with any two suited if they have 4 to the flush post flop. I think I need to get into that mentality. On the flip side, my set's never get paid. Any scare card on the river and off they run. I want to post some other stats when I gethome and have someone tell me, do I seem to get less sets than the odds suggest, or is it just in my head.

Even though this chart shows I'm down. I won a $5 15man S&G to pay $45 I think and a couple ITM's from $2.50 10 man S&G's as well. I cleared another $40 from the "slow" Bonus so my roll is over $200 again on River Belle.

i think you played the JTs hand bad. raise the flop, bet the turn.

you want to make the pots bigger on earlier streets so that way you dont have to overbet on the river to get all of their chips

Raise QTs in the cutoff. Limping sucks.

Pretty amazing what can happen when they can't catch those suckout flushes on the river.

Good read so far T-J. My lone recommendation would be to raise more when you reraise preflop. Well, that and rarely,if ever slow playing. If they don't have a hand, they may bluff or catch a second best hand. I've noticed that the key to low stakes is patience to get your money in with great hands.

*Last edited by jyms on Mon, 16 Oct 2006, 9:06am; edited 1 time in total*

So, thanks so far guys. Halfway thru october and I'm at $220 on Prima. After a dismal start. I've been really aggresive with my preflop and postflop betting. I have discovered that If I play tight(18/9 @ 6max) and never open with less than 4x, or raise 3x the limp, I either take down the blinds and limpers, or get one caller almost everytime. I stopped C-betting into more than 2 players and I've slowed down on the turn and river without at least a set. Guys aren't hiding behind my agressive turn and river bets anymore, and when a calling station has a monster he rarely gets a large portion of my stack. I won $40 last night on a 15 man S&G last night after getting stacked first hand in ring (rivered str8 over set of K's). Last night I tried to experiment with 2 FR tables on top of my 4 x 6max near the end of the night and just played full ring on autopilot. I was up 3 or 4 bucks on each after only and hour and maybe spent 30 seconds total looking at them. After multitableing shorthanded, full ring is slow and easy in comparison. I'm shooting for 4k hands from tonight till sunday night. PT doesn't work on the tourneys and S&G's there so I may not be able to track all the hands but I will post my weekend stats when I'm done. I can't post all my stats because they are scewed to stupid on the first 5000 hands at Prima. I do have over 15000 since signup there on sept.19. so I'm having no problems getting in the hands.

Two questions. First, did anybody get to check their summaries on PT and see if they are a winning player in the pair or two pair categories, and if yes, is that with or without checking the box for folded hands.
And secondly. How can you find out your % of sets flopped. I may be just screwed in the head but I really feel that I do not get my fair share of sets. It may be just because I'm having a hard time getting them payed off, but I swear, I've had some dry spells and cannot remember a rush of them in my short career to make up for that.

Hmm. I never got around to replying on your pair & two-pair category question.

It's absolutely normal for them to be "losers". It would be a really weird sign if they weren't.

A good proportion of hands finish as pairs. Remember this includes that J2o hand you junked pre-flop from the BB and a 2 turns up on the river. It includes the time you junk 72o in the SB and the board comes up AAK93.

If you take the maxim "set it or forget it" as a strategy then you'll be folding a PP 7 times and playing a set once (so major loss to the 'pair' category, profit goes in the "three of a kind" category). Of course there'll be times that your PP holds up, there'll be times your PP will set after you fold, there'll be times when the board pairs (making your loss show up in two pair).

Add to that all the times you middle/bottom pair and you begin to see why your losses ought to end up in that category.

Not sure how clear I made that. But there you go.

What would be a much more helpful tab in PT would be categories of hand at the point I folded it.

Don't sweat the statistical improbabilities like how many sets you flopped compared to what the odds say. It will all even out in the long run.

I don't have exact stats, but I remember seeing on the Summary tab that one pair hands are net loser (no surprise) but I was in the green with two pair hands. I guess I run good.

So It's been Half a month and my progress has not climbed to where I'd hoped. But, I'm playing better, I'm in control of most of my game. I just got to stop being stacked with marginal hands. When I lose a buy in or two, usually only after about a 100 hands in the session, I get smart and focused, and get my buy-ins back. Can't post my weekend stats yet, I'm at work. The short version is that I went down almost $85 on friday, getting smoked by drunk, stupid calls (not mine), catching gutshots when I know they are chasing. Set over sets after getting it all in on the flop, and they catch the miracle 2 outer. This isn't a bad beat tread, I swear. I'll say this, I never got stacked once this weekend from what I could tell, by getting the money in while behind, so I know i will come out on top in the long run. I Played a total of 3997 hands this weekend in my ring games, I also played 8 $2.50 S&G's (5 x 10 man, 5 x 30 man) and a couple of tourneys.

I was up about $30 on the S&G's and I never monied on the tourneys. They are more like MT S&G's because there are only 60 or 80 in most tourneys on this site and ITM starts at final table. I got to between 20 and 11 on every tourney, but I always start with blind stealing and watching my M too late because of the ring games occupying my time, and when it gets too late I can't get back into it.

So I'm basically at $225 after losing the original $85 on friday night. That's awfully swingy still I know, but I will post these charts and hands when I get home in a couple of hours. I'm basically down over the weekend $20 in ring but with Bonus and tournies, i'm close to where I started. I had a 1k hand downswing and 3k hand upswing so it makes me feel ok that I was able to focus and keep it climbing all weekend after having only 15 or 16 buy-ins. I did break one of my rules and played some $20NL FR when I was feeling on my game, along with my 4 x 6max 10NL. They are no better at the game and the tables are weak as hell with 40+VP$P and PFR% at on 6 or 8. But without the roll, I know it can be disasterous. i did end up a buy-in+ at those tables, which can be a problem for me. I've been down that road before and will try not to repeat history and get into chasing the BR again.

I really need to find some time for analizing and posting hands. It seems that when I have time at home, it's right to the tables. I have a week off in november to get a few things done, but want to get in a shit load of hands as well. I'd really like to see what I can do with no distractions at home before I get some time off for surgery (my arm, nothing major) and may get 6 weeks of much needed vacation after that. Haven't had more than 8 or 9 weeks off in the last 6 years. I even stopped doing the personal training 3 years ago to get more time and I'm not getting any.

So here's my stats for the weekend.

Yes I see the glaring leak. Here's the hands that cost me big.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?561192
I didn't give credit for a set here. I figured he had reraised all in before with AA and KK so maybe a smaller pair. I slowed down the turn and basically had decent odds to stick around and the river call was 6 bucks to a $47 pot with an overpair. Ouch.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?561206

Put him on a missed draw, what the hell do I know?

Ya I know, two hands in bad position facing resistance. This is supposed to be something I get away from now. TP or overpair against resistance is a bad place to lose a stack.
So I was reading on the other site about BR management and moving up. They have actually claimed that at the SSNL it's not wrong to move up on a trial basis before getting the full 20 buyins. But understanding that there is no room for 5 buy in downswings. It's to ease into the stakes when your confident of success and possibly making the jump quicker. So that's why my attempts without getting carried away. Basically, your not supposed to think of yourself as a 10NL or 20NL player but have ranges depending on BR and experience, which is also supposed to make it easier to move down or stay at a stake when things aren't working at another level. Kind of a Dwarfman Challenge for one stake at one or two tables and see how it goes. But never risking even 1/4 bankroll. It basically letting me play with $40 out of my $200 if I'm not afraid that I can get it back at the previous stakes.It may also allow the lower stakes to become easier to play after tightening up and playing smarter and more concentrated at a higher level.

TJ, you don't have an overpair in the first hand - you have 2nd pair! As soon as he calls you need to seriously consider check/folding, I think. When he raises you on the river you have to wonder what the hell he could be raising you with that you beat. The answer is nothing. This is a BIG leak that you don't even recognise this.

The second hand - draws don't min-raise multiple streets! I would have to re-raise at some point, or check/fold. He is SCREAMING strength, not minor strength (like JJ, say) but multiple minraise strength - you have a good hand but only 2 outs to improve and there is a very obvious hand that has you beat. I just can't see any excuses for how you played it.

Sorry your right about hand one. I meant that I didn't figure him for the K but a smaller pair, so I put my hand to an overpair to what he had. Your right on everything, there are no excuses. This is why I picked these hands. I don't know what it is, whether I am not afraid of the cost at the time, or just missing these clues because of multi tables. Both would be a problem that needs fixing. They look very bad when you see them after, but in the middle of the game I just didn't pick up on it the same as when I replay them in PT. I did pick up on one small problem I have is not estimating the value of some of my turn and river bets, making stupid calls sometimes, just in the name of implied odds. (if I hit this I'll stack em) But I'm not looking well enough at the Preflop betting, effective stacks, or position sometimes. For example, In cutoff with Axs and I raise to take out the button after 2 limpers with 100+ stacks. If I catch a flush draw I can bet for value. Not the problem I think. Problem is, Prima is hard to reload your chips and sometimes you forget. It won't let you reload during a hand you are in play on, only after a folded hand and the hand is still in play. So I made this call at least twice i remember with 60 or less BB, Not good. Still possibly a good play but not my original intention. Thanks, And I will work on these.

If you are multitabling and it's making you play worse, then you need to consider dropping a table. Having said that, you do need to be able to pick up the texture of the board quickly and tbh the simplest thing to do is look at what beats your holding. A king when you have queens is an obvious one, as is 88x when you have kings. That's not to say you are necessarily behind in these hand - mostly you won't be - but it does mean you need to be immediately, instinctively on your guard and are prepared to fold if played back at.

Thanks Biondino,

I'M AN IDIOT. I start out flying. getting small pots, decent cards and taking a couple smaller stacks. $26 in 275 hands. Then all hell breaks loose, I can't keep the lead in betting. I'm getting reraised, off TPTK, drawing hands aren't hitting, can't get a set for the life of me. Maybe it was tilt, I don't feel tilt as anger if it was, I was upset and disappointed, a little pissed maybe but not . Maybe just bad play. These hands show my most costly plays during the slide. Here's my take, tell me what's wrong with my thinking and whats the right thinking.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?564523
Small blind, great hand. Didn't narrow the field with the preflop betting. I don't know why I didn't raise more, Should have raised to at least a $1, maybe a $1.20. The post flop bet was horrendous. the rest of the hand doesn't matter. Should have taken it down there or at least gotten it all in. Right??

http://www.pokerhand.org/?564525
Better preflop raise. Absolutely no idea why I bet so little after the flop when I caught the flop and there was 2 clubs on the board. Should have been happy to take it down there or make him pay huge to chase. No?

http://www.pokerhand.org/?564526
In the BB with garbage. Get to see the flop for free. Get the flush draw for $0.40. A on the turn he bets $0.80, I put him on a high pair or slowplay a set, if I catch I own him. I call, hit and the rest is just rediculous. Should this have happened, was I just beat? When do you let this hand go? Do you let this hand go?

http://www.pokerhand.org/?564532
Villian had pushed garbage on previous hands. Was playing WPT style. All in with SC, Axs, two broadways. I waited for a hand and thought it was a decent play, Shorty VS AK. Wrong??

I was playing well, up on monday 30+ and yesterday I was up $25 twice and then it just started bleeding. Never won a hand. Had a $90 downswing. Here's the graph and my position stats, because I think the SB was a huge problem. I know not to complete from the SB with garbage, so what the hell. I'm going to try some more hands tonight and work on those stats alot.

I got one thing to say

** Game ID 994921509 starting - 2006-10-19 17:37:29
** Dumb Struck [Hold 'em] (0.10|0.20 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- jsdfires sitting in seat 1 with $18.75
- ing0lf sitting in seat 2 with $29.59
- plojj sitting in seat 4 with $21.50
- biffen111 sitting in seat 5 with $28.62
- trainerJyms sitting in seat 6 with $19.90 [Dealer]

jsdfires posted the small blind - $0.10
ing0lf posted the big blind - $0.20
biffen111 posted to play - $0.20
** Dealing card to trainerJyms: 10 Club

, 10

plojj folded
biffen111 checked
trainerJyms raised - $0.80
jsdfires folded
ing0lf folded
biffen111 called - $0.80

** Dealing the flop: 3 Club

, 10

, Queen

biffen111 bet - $0.90
trainerJyms raised - $1.80
biffen111 called - $1.80

** Dealing the turn: 7 Diamond

biffen111 bet - $2.60
trainerJyms raised - $5.20
biffen111 called - $5.20

** Dealing the river: Ace Spade

biffen111 checked
trainerJyms went all-in - $12.10
biffen111 called - $12.10
trainerJyms shows: 10 Club

, 10

(3 of a kind, tens)
biffen111 shows: Jack Spade

, King

(a straight, A high)
biffen111 wins $39.80 from the main pot

End of game 994921509

What's with all the wimpy raising? What are you trying to acheive?

If you're going to slowplay this then call the flop and raise the turn, but you've got to put in a decent raise. Certainly on the turn as he obviously likes what he's got enough to lead into you.

It's a line that leads that gets it all-in on the river, but the raises are weak so either your raises are normally too low or you're giving away information here.

You voluntarily and willingly put your stack in here while giving him odds to call to the nuts. Why do you need us to tellyou why this was bad?

Personally - I raise 3 times his flop bet then push the turn.

I have been told off on this before.

Don't set BR goals.... especially for such a short term span such as over the weekend. Just set a hand goal and play to it.

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