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Posted: Wed, 30 Nov 2005, 6:12pm Post subject: Discussion: ttanaka's Casino Bonuses Journal |
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Radministrator
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 4958
WPP: 104
Location: Playa Tamarindo, Costa Rica
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Posted: Wed, 30 Nov 2005, 6:27pm Post subject: |
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Flush
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 571
WPP: 124
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ttanaka,
Great explanation. I have been thinking about doing this but was confused about the wr. To me they seemed high and I thought they would be hard to reach. Your explanation is really clear. I was always afraid to play blackjack for some reason, even though I know how to play it, I wasnt sure how the casino's did it. Plus I have never used charts before so figured that would be intimidating. How do you know how many decks they deal with? I know theres different charts for however many decks they use.
I will be following this thread and wish you lots of luck with your venture. |
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Posted: Wed, 30 Nov 2005, 6:37pm Post subject: |
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Administrator
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 1171
WPP: 135
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I'm glad that helped, yeah I was kinda confused going in too, so I asked customer service a lot of questions and took my time. Starluck uses 8 decks and they re-shuffle after only 20%, so there aren't any card counting angles or anything. I use the FTR chart which is based on Vegas rules 6-deck shoe. Actually, I don't even use a chart since I've known basic strategy for over a decade, but that chart is how I play.
Take a $100 out of your poker bankroll and follow me, it should be fun and I'll bet we end up with more money at the end! |
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Posted: Wed, 30 Nov 2005, 6:49pm Post subject: |
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Flush
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 571
WPP: 124
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Its sure worth a try. Right now Im waiting on a cashout from Fortune Poker and my Bet365 Bonus to show up. Speaking of Bet365, they only offer one free withdrawal a month, should I take the $100 I will have in the poker room there and play it in the casino before I pull it out and go somewhere else with it? edit: Forget I asked this. I looked and their casino requires a $200 initial deposit. I would have to wait for my Fortune cashout to complete before I have that.
Also as far as charts go. What about using the wizard of odds charts, there's been alot of good referal to them.
Also if Starlucks uses an 8 deck set how did you come up with using a 6 deck chart? Did the 20% shuffle have anything to do with it and is it that important to factor in (the % shuffle)? |
Last edited by Rabid Dog on Wed, 30 Nov 2005, 7:29pm; edited 2 times in total
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Posted: Wed, 30 Nov 2005, 6:57pm Post subject: |
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Flush
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 571
WPP: 124
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I will say this, if I can clear a $100 Bonus in a couple hours playing blackjack, that beats the crap out of the 4 days I spent clearing the Bet365 Bonus because my bankroll wasnt big enough for 100nl.
Is there a bankroll requirment for casino whoring? Or is $100 a good starting point. |
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Posted: Wed, 30 Nov 2005, 7:56pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 1239
WPP: 83
Location: Sweden
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Betting small doing these bonuses does not earn you any EV, its just a waste of time.
I like to bet $10 per hand on withdrawable bonuses. Sticky bonuses are a bit different though.
I did a 300% to $300 sticky Bonus yesterday, I started off betting $100 per hand and was one hand away from busting before getting up to $600, I then made a $300 bet and won leaving me with $600 of withdrawable balance. This took about 10 mins to play. |
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Posted: Thu, 01 Dec 2005, 9:40am Post subject: |
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Administrator
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 1171
WPP: 135
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| Can you explain the strategy behind the sticky bonuses? The sticky bonuses are where you can wager it but never withdraw it, correct? |
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Posted: Thu, 01 Dec 2005, 10:03am Post subject: |
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Flush
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 571
WPP: 124
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Im pretty sure a sticky Bonus is one you cant withdraw ever. But you can withdraw whatever winnings you make off the sticky Bonus after the WR have been met. I think you can keep going back and playing off that sticky Bonus until you loose it also.
At least thats how I interpreted it when I read about them. |
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Posted: Thu, 01 Dec 2005, 10:08am Post subject: |
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Flush
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 571
WPP: 124
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| ttanaka wrote: |
Take a $100 out of your poker bankroll and follow me, it should be fun and I'll bet we end up with more money at the end! |
As soon as my cashout from Fortune shows up in my neteller account, Im going to follow you around. As long as it doesnt bother you that Im shadowing your whores. Maybe we can both turn our initial $100 into some good money by the end. Might be up to 2 more days before it shows up though. |
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Posted: Thu, 01 Dec 2005, 12:54pm Post subject: |
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Starfleet's Finest
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2080
WPP: 104
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
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| ttanaka wrote: | | Can you explain the strategy behind the sticky bonuses? The sticky bonuses are where you can wager it but never withdraw it, correct? |
Here's the strategy regarding sticky bonuses:
Let's take Golden Palace's offer, for instance. 300%, sticky.
So you put in $100, get $300 as a sticky Bonus, with 4x wagering requirements for the Bonus + deposit. That means you'll need to wager $1600.
The very first hand, put your entire balance on the line ($400). If you win, great! Now you have $800, but remember that $300 of that is sticky, so you really only have $500. You now essentially have $400 in Bonus ($500-$100 initial deposit) that you need to wager $1200 (3x depost + Bonus) for. Just wager normally from here on out.
The catch is that if you lose your first hand, you're done: on to the next Bonus. Sticky bonuses are inherently risky, but are +EV. |
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Posted: Thu, 01 Dec 2005, 12:55pm Post subject: |
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Starfleet's Finest
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2080
WPP: 104
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
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| Did that make sense ttanaka? |
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Posted: Thu, 01 Dec 2005, 1:12pm Post subject: |
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Administrator
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 1171
WPP: 135
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| Interesting...but do you have to bet the entire amount on one hand? Could you bet $25 or $50 or even $100 a hand? |
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Posted: Thu, 01 Dec 2005, 1:27pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 1239
WPP: 83
Location: Sweden
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| ttanaka wrote: | | Interesting...but do you have to bet the entire amount on one hand? Could you bet $25 or $50 or even $100 a hand? |
Yes you can, ensign Lee just described one way of doing it. You should make big bets so that you will either reach your goal or bust out fast. One drawback with betting your whole balance on the first hand is that the house edge is bigger because you won't be able to double or split your hand. |
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Posted: Thu, 01 Dec 2005, 1:36pm Post subject: |
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Flush
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 571
WPP: 124
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| What would be wrong with just betting the same way as you do a non sticky? Guess Im alittle confused on this. |
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Posted: Thu, 01 Dec 2005, 1:38pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 1602
WPP: 105
Location: Party 6 max
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| ttanaka wrote: | | Interesting...but do you have to bet the entire amount on one hand? Could you bet $25 or $50 or even $100 a hand? |
Your greatest EV (or rather least negative) comes from betting the most you can at once.
You aren't trying to lose the least like you are with the other bonuses. You need to take advantage of the WHOLE sticky Bonus to try to make the most.
Think of a roulette game... What is the best way to ensure a profit for the night?
By only making one bet, since the house edge has more time to affect you the more trials it gets.
Now with the sticky bonuses, losses come from your "real money" first, since you can never withdraw the Bonus.
So if you bet $100 and lose, you just lost $100.
If you bet $400 and lose, you just lost $100. |
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Posted: Thu, 01 Dec 2005, 1:41pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 1239
WPP: 83
Location: Sweden
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| Demiparadigm wrote: |
So if you bet $100 and lose, you just lost $100.
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Umm no.. |
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Posted: Thu, 01 Dec 2005, 1:43pm Post subject: |
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Flush
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 571
WPP: 124
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| So basically stay away from sticky's till you have more of a bankroll built incase you loose that first hand big bet. |
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Posted: Thu, 01 Dec 2005, 1:46pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 1239
WPP: 83
Location: Sweden
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You lose your $100 when you bust period.
I lost my fiirst two $100 bets yesterday and ended up with $900 ($600 withdrawable). |
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Posted: Thu, 01 Dec 2005, 1:59pm Post subject: |
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Administrator
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 1171
WPP: 135
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So, let's say I have $400 total, $100 deposited and $300 sticky Bonus. Maybe my approach should be to bet $200/hand. That way, I can double if need be on that first hand.
If I win, I'll have $600, $300 of which is withdrawable (once I reach the wagering requirement) - so if I win, then maybe I play low stakes until I reach the wagering requirement and then run.
If I lose, I'll have $200. Then, I guess I could make $100 bets, until I reach $400 again or go broke. Once I reach $400, then goto line 10.
How does that sound for a gameplan?
Or, bet it all once, and if I win, then just try to satisfy the wagering requirement and run?
Or, bet $100 bets and quit once I reach the wagering requirement and hope I'm up more than the Bonus so I can withdraw something?
Which gameplan do you guys think I should try? |
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Posted: Thu, 01 Dec 2005, 2:07pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 1239
WPP: 83
Location: Sweden
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| ttanaka wrote: | ?
Or, bet $100 bets and quit once I reach the wagering requirement and hope I'm up more than the Bonus so I can withdraw something?
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You should never quit before you reach your goal! Do you want to profit $200, $400 or more? Whatever you decide to set as a goal you will have to play until you reach it or bust. The small wagering requirement is not the problem here, it can be completed with small bets once you reach that goal. |
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Posted: Thu, 01 Dec 2005, 2:16pm Post subject: |
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Flush
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 571
WPP: 124
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ttanaka,
I'm sure you have seen Salsa's blog on casino whoring. It looks pretty good and explains sticky's some. He has them listed as the last casino's to whore. I dont know if this is by preference or just where they fell when he was listing them. I have the site bookmarked for when I was wanting to give casino's a try. Of course the blog was done in August, so I dont know if its still considered up to date.
http://salsa4ever.blogspot.com/ |
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Posted: Thu, 01 Dec 2005, 2:21pm Post subject: |
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Administrator
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 1171
WPP: 135
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| Yeah, I've checked it out, I plan on completing Starluck and PlanetLuck first. These stickies will be coming up soon though, so I thought I'd prepare myself. |
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Posted: Thu, 01 Dec 2005, 6:39pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 906
WPP: 92
Location: SoCal
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Comment on wager tracking at Starluck / PlanetLuck --
Open the Window's Calculator to count, or use the Player's Club points (.1 pt per $1 wagered). The Luck's point counters lag by a day, so they are not super useful. The point lag also prevents one from withdrawing the same day wagering is completed.
Other methods to count wagers -- hand counter, deck of cards, pencil and paper, paper clips -- well you get it. |
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Posted: Thu, 01 Dec 2005, 7:46pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 1602
WPP: 105
Location: Party 6 max
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| Cocco_Bill wrote: | | ttanaka wrote: | ?
Or, bet $100 bets and quit once I reach the wagering requirement and hope I'm up more than the Bonus so I can withdraw something?
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You should never quit before you reach your goal! Do you want to profit $200, $400 or more? Whatever you decide to set as a goal you will have to play until you reach it or bust. The small wagering requirement is not the problem here, it can be completed with small bets once you reach that goal. |
Can you give a single mathematical reason why there would be higher expected value from continuing to play a negative expected value game once your wagering requirement is met, just to reach some arbitrary "goal"?
I don't actually play blackjack online, so I admit I am not 100% versed in the effects of a sticky Bonus.
Second, doubling down NEVER increases your chances of winning. It in fact ALWAYS decreases your chance of winning. However, the expected value that you gain by doubling your bet is greater than what you gain in winrate by simply hitting. This is why many casinos will usually let you "double for less" but will not let you split for less.
Splitting is slightly different in that it allows you to win more or lose less. Using the example of AA and 88. 2 aces is obviously better than a 12, with 88, you will still often lose with 2 8s, but less often than when you have 16.
Third (to answer a different question) it doesn't much matter what chart you use to play blackjack. Charts are mathematically proven, and with the exception of some kind of typo, they will be the same for games with the same rules. Also the difference between 6 and 8 decks is barely enough to raise the house odds, but not enough to make any changes to basic strategy. |
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Posted: Fri, 02 Dec 2005, 3:56am Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 1239
WPP: 83
Location: Sweden
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