Discussion: Sit and Go Moves

RE: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18272

Thanks for this, great post.
I do think however that some of these moves will not register in some of the opponents minds at low-limit games unfortunately Sad

I play the 10+1s
The stop and go is a really good move anywhere
The PVS is also good, but i dont use it much.

What's PVS stand for?

its a secret!!!

NICE JOB VQ. i plan on taking time to go through each line later on, but it looks great at first glance.

Wow, this is exactly what I've been needing. Thank you so much.

Two things though that I've been noticing at the lowest SnGs ($5)

I've been having a lot of trouble with the Stop & Go and Continuation bets later in the tournament after players have seen me make these moves early. And overall these moves seem to be hurting me because I end up losing a lot more chips late when they reraise me than I make when I can pull this off early.

I've also been getting burned pulling these moves on ragged flops. Ideally I like these plays when the board is Broadway rag rag. If he didn't hit the paint, it's my pot.

My solution (Is this a bad idea):
I've been contemplating (and wondering if this is too dangerous) to start pushing with these moves late.

e.g. 2 limpers, I raise with AJo, one caller. Flop is rags or maybe one broadway. Normally I'd 1/2 - 2/3 bet here, but if he's a station and likely to call is it too risky to push? This is how I've squandered my significant leads lately, when I have premium hands and people who've seen me make these plays just call me down with a pair and shit kicker knowing I'm most likely making continuation bets with low PP or Overcards.

it depends on the size of the pot, stack szies, number of players left so on and so forth. But ew dont push that shit unless u have to.

But ok

How to defend the C-bet (continuation bet)
check call the flop
when checked to on the turn bet the turn, or lead out on the turn.

How to defend the defense against he C-Bet.
check raise the turn.
or
take the second shot

Thanks. I remember you talking about making a post like this. Nice to see it at last. I'll have to study this once I finish some school studying 1st.

The Trip Semi Trap

I cam up with this while thinking about post odds, my comments in red.

You [9h, 9c] [$1000 in chips]one off button
Opp [$1000 in chips]button

Blinds 25/50

Preflop, You raise to $200, Opp calls. Blinds fold. Pot size is $475
4xs raise, your opponent has something respectable

Flop [ 3c, 9d, 7s] You bet $175. Opp calls. Pot size is $825.
First instinct may be to check the set and let him bluff at it, but if you look here, he has to call this bet if he hit this flop (lower set) or 2 overcards. If he has a pair higher than 9s, he will generally reraise you and a trap is not necessary.

Turn [Js] Perfect card for you here. If he was on overs, this may have hit him, if it was not, a smaller bet may induce a reraise bluff. A smaller bet also gives him odds to try and hit his over on the river You bet $200. Opp calls. Pot size is $1225

The river at this point will decide if you get all of his chips. Even if it misses his hand, a smallish (200 or so) bet could induce him to reraise all in. Even so, he is pot committed by the river, as he has put in 57.5% of his chips in the pot already. My guess is, he won't realize this until the river card lands on the table.

nh VQ

Can I see some blind defense and post flop bluffs, thx.

-'rilla

blind defense is a WHOLE other thread (seriously)
thats wat i really want to work on , playing blinds for a profit, and if I ever learn anything goot, i will post.

as for post flop play. most of my post flop play comes from blind defending. So there ya go!

Great post VQ
Stickify it

Another move - The fake 'complete draw' reraise.
Situation: You and another person in the pot, you are in late position.
The flop comes with two draws - flush and str8 - and you are on one of them (lets assume str8 draw)
villan bets, you call, you put villian on a hand that is not a draw - TPTK, 2 pair whatever.
Turn completes the draw you dont have (flush in this case)
villian bets/checks you reraise/raise, representing the flush.

If you are planning to make this move it is worthwhile to call his flop bet even if you do not have pot odds, because you are representing both the flush and the str8 draws - 15 outs instead of 8/9 for a regular draw

yay someone likes it enough to want to sticky it.
stickified it goes.

great sticky, but i'm still curious what PVS is...

also, you need to replace "i.e." with "e.g." throughout the post. "i.e." means "that is," not "for example."

e.g.: no limit texas hold 'em is considered by some to be the "cadillac" of poker (i.e., the best form).

eg = ergo = therefore.

ergo, ergo might not be the best thing to replace i.e. with.

whats the shorthand for EXAMPLE.

Ill give u a hint:
PVS is someones name. As for wat his name is...

eg is an example where the example can take many forms
'i like colours eg blue'
i.e clarifies a point most often
'America is the worlds only superpower i.e it has more tanks than everyone else'
As for the thread its great. I'm just not so sure the stop and go works at lower limits unless you hit two pair in which case i would make a stop and go anyway from the bb.

last night deep in a mtt i had about a 10bb stack in the BB, folded to a guy in middle position, who calls, then the buttons calls and so does the SB. I pushed (PVS!) with 49s and the SB called with AQo. K7739 board = I double through fishiness. The initial race sucked, but i would make the same move again considering how weak they all played the hand.

I cant find any movies!!!
please give me a link

MOVES not movIes

Haha he wants movies soooo bad.

Wow if that's your picture and your writting, allow me to say you are my ideal (almost perfect) woman. The threat is fantastic.

I came up with something sort of like the same, but as a good poker player I keep it all to myself. I couldn't have said it better though. great explanation and great body as well. I would love to get to know you better. Keep up the great work beautiful!!!

Dnm girl!

I'm on messenger at trueticotony@hotmail.com contact me any time you like to discuss poker or any topic in general!!!
Cool

As per Rockymv, maaannn!!! get a freaking life. Life ain't a movie!!! play some live poker and stop spamming the forum...
Evil or Very Mad

Squeezing and all-in semibluffing are by far my favorites.

Hey guys, I'm new to the forums but I'll give some insight.

First off the moves in the post at the top are pretty solid. Some serious thought has gone into them. However in order for them to work the players at your table have to

A. Be observant enough that they know your a solid player
B. Care about the tournament, most people play tighter in tourneys because chips can be replaced some play looser because they start every 5mins and then will bust $100 in a ring game fast so they would rather play all night in sit and go's.
C. You need to pick the right targets and right times. (watch to see the player that limp in and fold, or people that lay their blind to 1 raise) and try them out after the blinds have just raised vs a player that is just trying to survive, make em fight but likey he will opt out.

Having the moves in your back pocket is definitely better than not but for a reason u probably wouldn’t think of at first. You will be able to spot and either duck or defend against them. The best way to play a Sit and Go standard way u all know ... get a image, observer your opponents and stay steady with the blinds, make moves when it gets tight and then hope u don’t roll a seven cause it's a craps game for the final 3-4.

I've been using the stop 'n go for years it's a great play. This scenario is one of the few situations where I think acting first is an advantage. I often make this play with what is very likely to be the best hand pre-flop. Some players may wonder "if you think you have the best hand pre-flop, why not push pre-flop?". Simple, I want to maximize my probability of winning the pot. If my opponent is getting better than 2-to-1 to call my AI reraise then there is no hand that they will fold pre-flop. However there are some hands that they will fold on the flop, e.g. TJ on a Q54 flop. If i have a strong hand like AK and I don't hit the flop I would rather push the TJ out of the hand and take down the small pot on the flop than gamble on them hitting a T or J on a later round. I know pre-flop that all my chips are going in one way or another, acting first gives my the luxury of deciding how I want my chips to go in. If I hit the flop with my AK I'll check and let them make a continuation bet that commits them to the pot guaranteeing that I'll get maximum value for my hand.

Another play that I can get away with against passive players is the river continuation bet. I try to steal the blinds pre-flop with a hand like 76 suited and get called by one of the blinds (a passive player). I don't flop a draw, there's no Ace to represent. They check to me on the flop, I check, they check to me on the turn, I check, they check the river, I got 7 high, he's weak I bet 2/3 the pot no matter what card comes on the river. If the river is a rag it migh be a very suspicious bet, but he checked 3 times, he's probably got jack high he has to raise or fold, which is why I target passive players with this play, they won't re-steal. My logic behind not betting the flop goes like this: if he has no pair on the flop, %75 of the time he'll still have no pair on the river and a passive player won't beat me without making a hand. Most players trying to trap you will either bet out on the turn or river after you check the prevous round. I also think this makes you less predictable. Always betting the flop after a raise will make observant players check raise you when they hit the flop. This can backfire if the player figures out you're weak and bets out with nothing putting you in a raise or fold situation. This is why I like to make this play against passive players.

Excellent post vqc, it's a nice summary of alot of different strategies.

You're right and most of the time time I will bet the turn, especially if I pick up a big draw. You had already covered that play breifly, the 4th st continuation bet.

However, one question I have about that play is what to do on the river if I get called? He may be calling me down all the way with second pair, in which case a big river bluff would hurt me. He might be calling me with an ace high flush draw(passive player), in which case not betting eneugh on the river would cost me the pot.

Betting the turn AND the river would win me an extra bet with that 7 high if I do catch a passive player on a draw. But it would cost me if they're calling me down with middle pair, and I don't like to gamble too much with weak players.

I guess the real question is how much do I bet on the river with 7 high after getting called on the turn? I think that depends on the river card. If they're on a flush draw you only have to bet eneugh for them to fold ace high, 1/4 pot? if they have a pair, they've put you on AK or something similar and have decided to look you up, no benefit betting more than 1/4 pot if the river is non-threatening. If the river is threatening A,K,Q this might be a good time to bet 3/4 pot and push them out of the hand??

How would you recomend playing the river after getting the 4th st continuation bet called? And how big a bet would you reccomend on 4th st?

probably my favourite play is the fake trips from the BB. It goes like this. you get to see a free flop from the BB. the flop comes something like 226. you check with the intention of check raising, or leading the turn. It is a far better way to rep trips 2's than to lead at the flop as it looks like a slowplay attempt. It does require that you arent playing with total jackasses who will call with anything, but then so do most moves.

mm bb special, I like

My favorite move has to do with me raising preflop - hitting and then betting out slightly less than your usual continuation bet....nothing overly obvious, eg. Raise from button to $300 with AJo...BB calls, pot of $750....bet (if you usual continuation bet is 1/2 the pot) $350 on the flop when JXX rainbow hits. I think this is a subconcious thing about almost betting your continuation bet that stinks of weakness. I have seen so many players stomp my bet thinking they are good with 2nd pair or top pair weak kicker...only to find out different. Against strong players, just underbet it a little. Works extremely well when stacks are getting a little short and you want to destack your opponent.

Just a note on the PVS play;
the first limper likely has a reasonable hand; the reason for this is he is almost never gaurenteed any sort of chip odds for limping a marginal hand, so 2 high cards like ATs or QJo or a medium pocket pair like 99 or 88 fit the bill, (i.e. hands that aren't really fit to raise). The reason he folds is because there are several players yet to act behind him and he doesn't want to get caught against a better hand than his who is also calling your all-in.

My buddy likes this play when he's in the BB with a 30bb+ stack. It's meant to counter a c-bet and pad your stack for the later stages. It seems solid to me, but I'm a SnG newb. What do you think...

You call a smallish (2-4bb) PFR from someone you suspect has 2 high cards when it's folded to you in the BB in the mid (15/30 or 25/50) levels. You can have almost any two cards and bet or check/raise a c-bet on a raggy flop and take the pot most of the time. Once in a while you hit the flop hard and might double up.

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Discussion: Sit and Go Moves

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Discussion: Sit and Go Moves