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Posted: Fri, 17 Dec 2004, 6:07pm Post subject: Discussion: hyper's 6max limit guide
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 3580
WPP: 80
Location: emo-kid
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original thread here...
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5043
i don't know if you guys think it's good so far, or just waiting for me to finish, or just not posting to keep that thread self contained...
anywho, i need some general comments to see if there are any glaring mistakes. thanks! |
Last edited by |~|ypermegachi on Fri, 24 Dec 2004, 5:21pm; edited 3 times in total
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Posted: Fri, 17 Dec 2004, 6:20pm Post subject:
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i wouldn't mind a change...
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 4836
WPP: 96
Location: TagFish
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| If i comment on your guide and make yours better, then how am i to win the essay contest? |
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Posted: Fri, 17 Dec 2004, 6:26pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 3580
WPP: 80
Location: emo-kid
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| elipsesjeff wrote: | | If i comment on your guide and make yours better, then how am i to win the essay contest? |
hahah, you can write the full ring limit guide 
we can both be winners! |
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Posted: Fri, 17 Dec 2004, 11:12pm Post subject:
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Administrator
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 1177
WPP: 98
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Hey Hyper, I very much like what you've written. I'd like to make an HTML version of this and put a link to it off the main homepage when you are completed, with your permission and with proper due credit!
Keep up the great work! |
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Posted: Fri, 24 Dec 2004, 5:22pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 3580
WPP: 80
Location: emo-kid
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bump! i added a poll.
EDIT: just for added discussion can you post your reasons why you selected each option? |
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Posted: Sun, 26 Dec 2004, 1:56pm Post subject:
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LAME HUMOR THAT MAKES FISH LAUGH
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8092
WPP: 75
Location: This room is a good place to be
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oooOOooo. With a poll, you've sparked my interest.
If you feel comfortable sharing this with the "outside world" then by all means, you should. The point of this forum is to better other players, hoarding this for the priveledge few seems like a foolish waste.
-'rilla |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Dec 2004, 4:47pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 1117
WPP: 67
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I didnt vote, simply b/c this is your guide Hyper and ill agree with any choice you make, you need to put it were you feel comfortable, it all comes down to what u want...
-anto |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Dec 2004, 5:55pm Post subject:
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i wouldn't mind a change...
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 4836
WPP: 96
Location: TagFish
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| Personally, I think it needs to be public. |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Dec 2004, 6:05pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 3580
WPP: 80
Location: emo-kid
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| alright! then make it public! |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Dec 2004, 6:43pm Post subject:
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LAME HUMOR THAT MAKES FISH LAUGH
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8092
WPP: 75
Location: This room is a good place to be
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OOOH I get it!
I make good, rational reasons for making it go public and get nadda. Jeff comes out and says "Just make it public" and you throw yourself in line to make his whim reality!?
No respect...
-'rilla |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Dec 2004, 6:51pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 3580
WPP: 80
Location: emo-kid
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| a500lbgorilla wrote: | OOOH I get it!
I make good, rational reasons for making it go public and get nadda. Jeff comes out and says "Just make it public" and you throw yourself in line to make his whim reality!?
No respect...
-'rilla |
lol seems like jeff and i always post at the same time...the other post in jeff's operation about what all the PT terms mean...i posted, only to see jeff posted the answer already, so i deleted my post, lol |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Dec 2004, 7:20pm Post subject:
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i wouldn't mind a change...
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 4836
WPP: 96
Location: TagFish
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| hypermegachi wrote: |
lol seems like jeff and i always post at the same time...the other post in jeff's operation about what all the PT terms mean...i posted, only to see jeff posted the answer already, so i deleted my post, lol |
LOL, thats because neither of us have lives and keep FTR in the background the entire day. I update the page like once every 20 mins. I like having the first and last words! |
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Posted: Wed, 29 Dec 2004, 1:56am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 1117
WPP: 67
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| hypermegachi wrote: | | a500lbgorilla wrote: | OOOH I get it!
I make good, rational reasons for making it go public and get nadda. Jeff comes out and says "Just make it public" and you throw yourself in line to make his whim reality!?
No respect...
-'rilla |
lol seems like jeff and i always post at the same time...the other post in jeff's operation about what all the PT terms mean...i posted, only to see jeff posted the answer already, so i deleted my post, lol |
the messages were ten minutes apart 
-anto |
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Posted: Thu, 06 Jan 2005, 12:56am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 3580
WPP: 80
Location: emo-kid
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| ttanaka wrote: | Hey Hyper, I very much like what you've written. I'd like to make an HTML version of this and put a link to it off the main homepage when you are completed, with your permission and with proper due credit!
Keep up the great work! |
alrighty, i've made the final changes. you can publicize it any time you want, or just sticky in the public forums. |
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Posted: Mon, 10 Jan 2005, 3:10am Post subject:
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The Greatest American Hero
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 5241
WPP: 91
Location: facebook.com/xianti
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| hypermegachi wrote: | | ttanaka wrote: | Hey Hyper, I very much like what you've written. I'd like to make an HTML version of this and put a link to it off the main homepage when you are completed, with your permission and with proper due credit!
Keep up the great work! |
alrighty, i've made the final changes. you can publicize it any time you want, or just sticky in the public forums. |
I'll let Tyson know that it's done. In the meantime, I'll move it to the LIMIT Hold'em forum, at your request. |
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Posted: Mon, 10 Jan 2005, 4:08pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 18762
WPP: 81
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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LMAO about going to showdown.
In short handed if I have an Ace or pocket pair and get heads-up to the flop I plan on taking my hand to the river barring some exceptional board or read.
Full table I win at showdown around 60-55%. Pot odds in any game (full or short) dictate that you must go to showdown in a lot of situations where you don't expect to win.
Also consider that taking a weak hand to showdown here and there does some good things for you.
o Gives you information on your opponent by seeing his hand
o Makes you more difficult to bluff if you opponent knows you may take any pair or naked Ace to showdown.
o The inevitable suck-outs this creates give you the table image of a bad player. |
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Posted: Mon, 10 Jan 2005, 8:17pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 3580
WPP: 80
Location: emo-kid
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| Fnord wrote: |
o The inevitable suck-outs this creates give you the table image of a bad player. |
that's just too brilliant!! |
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Posted: Tue, 11 Jan 2005, 10:10am Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 18762
WPP: 81
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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BB is the table captain
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter
Preflop: Fnord is Button with T , A .
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Fnord raises, SB folds, BB calls.
Flop: (4.33 SB) 8 , 8, 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Fnord bets, BB raises, Fnord calls.
Turn: (4.16 BB) 3 (2 players)
BB bets, Fnord calls.
River: (6.16 BB) 4 (2 players)
BB bets, Fnord calls.
Final Pot: 8.16 BB
Results in white below:
BB has Jh Qs (one pair, eights).
Fnord has Ts Ac (one pair, eights).
Outcome: Fnord wins 8.16 BB.
I say "sorry, I don't fold heads-up". This puts him on tilt and he says all kinds of stuff about me.
The following orbit, table captain is in the SB...
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (4 handed) converter
Preflop: Fnord is Button with A, T .
UTG folds, Fnord raises, SB folds, BB calls.
Flop: (4.33 SB) A, K, 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Fnord bets, BB calls.
Turn: (3.16 BB) 6 (2 players)
BB checks, Fnord bets, BB raises, Fnord calls.
River: (7.16 BB) 7 (2 players)
BB bets, Fnord calls.
Final Pot: 9.16 BB
Results in white below:
Fnord has As Th (one pair, aces).
BB has 5h 5s (one pair, fives).
Outcome: Fnord wins 9.16 BB.
BB leaves the table...
Next hand, table captain is in the BB
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (5 handed) converter
Preflop: Fnord is SB with T, A.
UTG folds, MP folds, Button folds, Fnord raises, BB calls.
Flop: (4 SB) 7, K, 4 (2 players)
Fnord bets, BB calls.
Turn: (3 BB) 2 (2 players)
Fnord bets, BB folds.
Final Pot: 4 BB
Results in white below:
No showdown. Fnord wins 4 BB. |
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Posted: Tue, 08 Mar 2005, 11:33pm Post subject:
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LAME HUMOR THAT MAKES FISH LAUGH
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8092
WPP: 75
Location: This room is a good place to be
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Posted: Tue, 08 Mar 2005, 11:47pm Post subject:
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i wouldn't mind a change...
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 4836
WPP: 96
Location: TagFish
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Posted: Tue, 08 Mar 2005, 11:52pm Post subject:
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The Greatest American Hero
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 5241
WPP: 91
Location: facebook.com/xianti
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Posted: Wed, 09 Mar 2005, 8:48am Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 24
WPP: 86
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| Quote: | | http://www.thepokerchronicles.com/archives/000942.html#more |
This guys view of hpers 6 max guide.
I have to say, since reading the guide, Ive become a worse player.
Maybe short term bad luck, I dont know, but i do feel there are fundamental errors in the guide, like checking in early position when you have a straight or flush draw,
Thats just one aspect, the guide is to passove and passive does not win in 6 max, aggression does. |
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Posted: Wed, 09 Mar 2005, 8:48am Post subject:
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One Pair
Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 24
WPP: 86
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Posted: Wed, 09 Mar 2005, 10:25am Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 18762
WPP: 81
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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| Quote: | | Also, if you plan to play seriously I highly recommend PokerTracker. Pretty useless for no limit |
Pointless and flat out wrong.
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UTG
Open raise or fold.
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Keep it simple. Don't open-limp in 6 max unless you have a VERY good reason.
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SB
You have awesome odds here, so if no one has raised, call with anything suited, and connectors.
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No discussion of blinds structure. Also being suited is a lot less useful when you're looking at 2-3 way flops against aggro players.
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BB
If everyone folds to the button, who raises, don't be a chicken if you have a decent hand. Even A3o is worth calling to tell the button to screw off trying to steal your blind. Having the ace is important though, with K3o the decision is more dependent on your read on the player.
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You're trying to cover a VERY complicated subject here needlessly.
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Suited connectors: There hands are junk shorthanded. Only play 98s or higher, and only in late position with limpers.
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Errr?
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High card hands: These hands go up in value. KTo, weak hand in full ring, strong hand shorthanded. You should not be afraid of open raising with this hand, from all positions.
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KTo UTG?
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FACING A RERAISE AFTER YOU RAISED
If you raised first, and it gets 3bet and capped back to you, muck your hand unless you hold the goods. Treat this as if you were cold calling.
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What exactly is "the goods"?
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Very few players are capable of raising you on the turn without the goods.
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Depends on the game. Played much 10/20 6 max?
Overall I think focusing on what's different in 6 max vs full post-flop would be better than trying to cover a HUGE topic. |
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Posted: Wed, 09 Mar 2005, 10:31am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 1452
WPP: 79
Location: im so asian
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| I agree there are holes in it, but for a noob to 6/max its fine. It might not make you an expert, but it wont make you a complete fool either. I think it is great that hyper took the time to tackle this tough subject, but the factor of the matter is, 6/max is more reading skills. ABC does not work, and you cant teach someone to call down with ace high when you think its good. This guide has been up since I've been on these forums, why is it getting heat now?? |
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Posted: Wed, 09 Mar 2005, 12:23pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 3580
WPP: 80
Location: emo-kid
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| Excel wrote: |
Maybe short term bad luck, I dont know, but i do feel there are fundamental errors in the guide, like checking in early position when you have a straight or flush draw,
Thats just one aspect, the guide is to passove and passive does not win in 6 max, aggression does. |
from the guide:
| Quote: | Flush Draws and Open Ended Straight Draws:
You want as many people in the pot as possible. If the table is loose with many people calling to the river with crap, bet out to build the pot. If the table is fairly tight, check with the intention of calling when the button bets, to try and get more callers. If the player after you bets, and people call afterwards, when it's your turn, RAISE. You have nothing now, but no one is going to fold for one more bet. Maximize the pot you can win by raising.
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checking is obviously not the default play...
btw, i only recommend being passive if betting will get people to fold. you want to maximize what you can win. and if you check raise with a flush draw and get 2 people to fold you aren't maximizing your profits. if they will call the raise anyway then yes keep on raising! |
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Posted: Wed, 09 Mar 2005, 12:27pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 3580
WPP: 80
Location: emo-kid
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| trikflow77 wrote: | | I agree there are holes in it, but for a noob to 6/max its fine. It might not make you an expert, but it wont make you a complete fool either. I think it is great that hyper took the time to tackle this tough subject, but the factor of the matter is, 6/max is more reading skills. ABC does not work, and you cant teach someone to call down with ace high when you think its good. This guide has been up since I've been on these forums, why is it getting heat now?? |
dunno, maybe people randomly googling are finding it....
i guess many people will criticize for me having default plays. of course if they made it through the entire thing. i guess i should make it much clearer in my next revision. since 6max is mostly a opponent reading game all default plays won't work against thinking players. there aren't very many thinking players out there. |
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Posted: Wed, 09 Mar 2005, 12:34pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 3580
WPP: 80
Location: emo-kid
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| Fnord wrote: |
Pointless and flat out wrong.
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yeah that is flat out wrong...
| Fnord wrote: |
| Quote: |
UTG
Open raise or fold.
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Keep it simple. Don't open-limp in 6 max unless you have a VERY good reason. |
open raise = open limp?
| Fnord wrote: |
| Quote: |
SB
You have awesome odds here, so if no one has raised, call with anything suited, and connectors.
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No discussion of blinds structure. Also being suited is a lot less useful when you're looking at 2-3 way flops against aggro players. |
point taken.
| Fnord wrote: |
| Quote: |
BB
If everyone folds to the button, who raises, don't be a chicken if you have a decent hand. Even A3o is worth calling to tell the button to screw off trying to steal your blind. Having the ace is important though, with K3o the decision is more dependent on your read on the player.
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You're trying to cover a VERY complicated subject here needlessly.
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point taken. i felt i needed to at least mention it tho...
| Fnord wrote: |
| Quote: |
Suited connectors: There hands are junk shorthanded. Only play 98s or higher, and only in late position with limpers.
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Errr? |
speculative hands suck shorthanded don't they?
| Fnord wrote: |
| Quote: |
High card hands: These hands go up in value. KTo, weak hand in full ring, strong hand shorthanded. You should not be afraid of open raising with this hand, from all positions.
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KTo UTG? |
yeah that's my personal cut off.
| Fnord wrote: |
| Quote: |
FACING A RERAISE AFTER YOU RAISED
If you raised first, and it gets 3bet and capped back to you, muck your hand unless you hold the goods. Treat this as if you were cold calling.
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What exactly is "the goods"? |
if you were raising with your borderline hands like KT, A9, JT sometimes it's better off to fold vs a passive player knowing you're too likely to be dominated. "the goods" i mean AA KK AK AQ KQ QQ etc
| Fnord wrote: |
| Quote: |
Very few players are capable of raising you on the turn without the goods.
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Depends on the game. Played much 10/20 6 max? |
not yet....not yet....
| Fnord wrote: |
Overall I think focusing on what's different in 6 max vs full post-flop would be better than trying to cover a HUGE topic. |
lol too late for that! |
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Posted: Wed, 09 Mar 2005, 2:09pm Post subject:
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LAME HUMOR THAT MAKES FISH LAUGH
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8092
WPP: 75
Location: This room is a good place to be
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You could start work on your big re-write. *nudge*
-'rilla |
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Posted: Wed, 09 Mar 2005, 2:44pm Post subject:
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i wouldn't mind a change...
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 4836
WPP: 96
Location: TagFish
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Where were you guys like 2 months ago when this discussion thread was up before you posted it? Fnord especially. These topics should have been mentioned and brought a while ago so he could fix them.
Ive only been pushing my LHE to be read and criticized, if it gets posted on FTR, screw you guys who failed to mention beforehand the errors in it. God knows I asked enough, as did Hyper. |
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Posted: Wed, 09 Mar 2005, 3:27pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 18762
WPP: 81
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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| Never gave it much thought. Overall, I think the topic is too broad. |
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Posted: Fri, 11 Mar 2005, 3:33am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 416
WPP: 142
Location: golf course
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Hi
I read Hyper's guide several times, and find good advice there.
The advice on position is good, but I tend to factor in the level of aggression when thinking about position, and don't put as much of a hard break between UTG+1 and CO as Hyper would infer. As I read into it, in 6H the most drastic change in the non-blind positions occurs between UTG+1 and CO.
I have found, though, that this position change is not as significnat at a passive limping table, but is VERY significant at an aggressive table.
A question for Hyper, Fnord, Jeff, Trickflow. rilla, etc.. I am I wrong for playing UTG+1 similar to CO at a passive table (not worried about being slammed with PF bets) and am I wrong for tightening up CO a bit and play it more like the Button when the table is very aggressive?
I realize there are tons of other factors (like where are the aggressive and passive players in relation to me) but is what I am doing correct in general principle?
That is blending aggression (or lack thereof) together with position as I define my starting requirements (which, I should add, I have been tightening all round).
Hyper. Thanks again for the article. |
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Posted: Fri, 11 Mar 2005, 3:51am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 3580
WPP: 80
Location: emo-kid
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| ArcticKnight wrote: | | A question for Hyper, Fnord, Jeff, Trickflow. rilla, etc.. I am I wrong for playing UTG+1 similar to CO at a passive table (not worried about being slammed with PF bets) and am I wrong for tightening up CO a bit and play it more like the Button when the table is very aggressive? |
having 2 players left to act vs 1 player left to act is pretty significant (many players will 3bet and isolate you). but since the table is passive, you can get away with it. value bet them to death after the flop.
if the table is very aggressive, just tend to avoid marginal situations unless your postflop play is top notch. since it's aggressive, you'll be folding most hands preflop anyways. it only becomes a real problem in the blinds when you need to protect. and boy oh boy do you need reads to play vs blind steals well! |
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Posted: Tue, 03 May 2005, 3:46pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 1968
WPP: 96
Location: 6max limit tables
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| Would you mind posting your 6max auto rate rules for PT? |
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Posted: Fri, 17 Jun 2005, 7:49pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 12 Dec 2004
Posts: 1296
WPP: 54
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| Do you guys think multi tabling 6 max at $1-2 would be better than ring game $2-4? |
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FTR $200 Freeroll at ChiliPoker, November 22nd 14:00 ET
