Discussion: chardrian's Rebuy Strategy

RE: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18643

Table "$20,000 R&A 28" (MTT) -- Seat 7 is the button
Seat 1: radjapan (45,175 in chips)
Seat 2: jonsilver (31,588 in chips)
Seat 3: R KIDD (29,150 in chips)
Seat 5: Ms.Lesh (17,950 in chips)
Seat 7: eellee (169,170 in chips)
Seat 8: ACARI (16,700 in chips)
Seat 9: chardrian (93,325 in chips)
Seat 10: mr pattaya 1 (67,064 in chips)
jonsilver: Ante (200)
R KIDD : Ante (200)
Ms.Lesh : Ante (200)
eellee : Ante (200)
ACARI : Ante (200)
chardrian: Ante (200)
mr pattaya 1: Ante (200)
radjapan: Ante (200)
ACARI : Post Small Blind (2,000)
chardrian: Post Big Blind (4,000)
Dealing...
Dealt to chardrian [ Jd ]
Dealt to chardrian [ 3d ]
mr pattaya 1: Fold
radjapan: Fold
jonsilver: Fold
R KIDD : Fold
Ms.Lesh : Fold
eellee : Raise (12,000)
ACARI : Fold
chardrian: Call (8,000)

i dont like this one. reraise him preflop if you think hes stealing too much.

i definitely fold the 99. you aren't much ahead of anything, and you don't want a coinflip.

I need to boost this mofo back up since I spent too much time writing it to not get any replies.

I just read the whole thing and think its fantastic. I'm starting to really work on my rebuy game since that is where I've much of my success in hold-em MTTs.... do you think a lot of this advice is valid for limit mtts, omaha or other forms of poker?

I want to play an R&A now... what do you normally do? 6-8 buyins per tournament? I was watching T soprano play one where I saw him do 100 buy ins. How do you play if you are at like a table with him.... where he pushes ALL in EVERY HAND no matter what... how tight do you have to be then?

Woo hoo! You just made my day!

I can put anywhere between 3 buy-ins (2 rebuys and 1 add-on and just kick ass like I did on Monday) up to 7 buy-ins (rebuy twice lose them all, rebuy twice again, lose them all again, and rebuy twice once more and an add-on). I paid 6 buy-ins for my FT last week, but it was well worth it.

I too have been enamored by watching guys like NSXT2 rebuy over and over and over again. But now I have realized that at some point you really are just throwing money away. I think you should hope to only pay for 3 buy-ins, expect to pay for 5, and be willing to pay for 7. After that it really is up to you and your bankroll.

If you're at a table with a guy who is just donating, take the donations. But even with the ability to rebuy I'm not calling a push preflop unless I have two cards that are giving me a decent shot at winning (e.g. pocket pairs, two face cards, Ax s, etc.).

Very good insight into R&As, thanks. Haven't yet played one myself, obvious bankroll reasons, but that surely does look interesting. I might just have to stare at your table one of these nights~

If you look at ROI figures, there becomes a point where the Add-on price doesn't justify with the ammount of chips you get. If you have 19,000 chips, I don't think an 2000 chip add-on is worth the price from the ROI perspective.

How about 30K at the break? 40k? At some point the add-on is worthless, and I feel that is right around 20k

the times i've had success in rebuys is when there was alot of chips at my table and people were able to play something besides push/fold poker in the 2nd and 3rd hour.

Let me make sure I'm on the same page here. The idea is to play loose to make someone rebuy, possibly yourself, with the intention of making the table be full of chips so you can hopefully win them back before you get moved once people start getting eliminated?

That seems to me to be an odd thing to bank on, and something you have absolutly no control over...but if you don't get moved around a lot in the first couple hours, I see why you'd do this.

The "chip rich" theory seemed illogical to me to start with as well. However, although I have been moved during the rebuy hour it is not that common. At a loose table, you have more people who are willing to rebuy which means less players eliminated and less of a chance of the table being broken up.

You basically just have three goals during the rebuy hour: 1) win a buttload of chips; 2) try to get your table to have a buttload of chips; and 3) maybe make people think you are super loose and have no idea what you are doing so that they will call you with Top Pair and a crappy kicker in the next hour(s).

On the 'why add on with stack XX,XXX' - on PS after the break the blinds are 75/150, heading to 100/200 and you can add on another 2k. That's 3-4 PPs/SCs you can call a 3x raise with in the first half hour after break and look to crack a big hand for free(ish). Which may make your stack (XX,XXX) *2.

(just following up on my last question) How well does this buy-in / rebuy strategy apply to non hold-em games... such as Omaha and stud... or even limit hold-em (YES PokerStars HAS LIMIT HOLD-EM REBUYS. WTF)

i've seen good players cap everything the first hour in a limit rebuy to build a stack...same idea

This is probably why I own in FOs and suck in Rebuys

Great posting Chadrian. I'm just bummed that there isn't anything more to read Smile

Good post, Chard.

However, I don't really like the 99 hand either, as your calling 2/3 your stack in the freeze out period. I lay this down most everytime---I guess you were pretty sure about. Nonetheless, it's still a flip for 2/3 your stack which is a tough call no matter the read.

I'm a freezeout player at heart, and I'm trying to adjust to the R/B accumulation approach. But I tell you...nothings greater than a couple people misapplying the "chip rich" approach. It's a good way to get 15-20k chips before the break... Laughing

For me, I think the most critical period is middle/bubble, where you either go broke or catapult yourself into position for a run. There's nothing less fun than finding yourself sweating it out to the money, because you let yourself lose your leverage during this stage. Mastering the technique and skill of this level seems more central to winning MTT's. The R/B approach seems more about B/R and stomach for accepting more risk, rather than pure skill it seems to me. Please don't take offence here...

It's really hard to offend me - don't worry.

I disagree about the skill aspect though. Although the first hour might be a luckfest, as soon as the rebuys stop it becomes a true battle of skill. Whether you start out as a rebuy or freezeout... at some point you are most probably going to have to take a risk. The 99 hand is a good example. I understand why both you and gabe think it's a poor play... but relooking at it - I still think it was worth it. Blinds are about to increase to a point where I am in push/fold mode. The guy who pushed is already in that mode and I still say he didn't have QQ-AA. I actually don't look at this as a cointoss situation. I think it is more like 60/40 my favor. There are only two hands that are crushing me. Quite a few where I am 55/45. But also quite a few where I am 70/30 or better - any lower pocket pair, A8s or lower. That hand gave me enough leverage to actually play poker and put me into the final table.

After playing WAY too loose during the rebuy hours lately, I have just edited the rebuy hour section of this. 9 rebuys is the Absolute, positive maximum for me from now on... and I think 7 is the total I really should be striving never to exceed. The reason? Even if you end the rebuy with your original 2 rebuys and an add-on you are set up to play tight solid poker for the next hour. With luck you can make it to the FT with just this alone. But even with skill, you usually won't make the FT even if you are sitting pretty after the rebuy hour after 9 rebuys. So for me, the risk/reward cutoff is at 7 rebuys (but I gotta leave myself 2 more just in case).

I think 7 is the max for me (3 double buyins plus the addon) any more than that just isnt healthy.

Why would you rebuy after losing the first 2 buyins but not after losing the 10th? You're in the same situation now (at 0). IMO, what matters is the future expected payoff and based on that you should make a +EV decision . Past results are irrelevant.

Ooh cool I have two posts that can now race towards 1000 views - I had forgotten about this one. I quit rebuying after 6ish now because by that time you have little time left to get a huge stack within the first hour so future expected payoff is much less.

Ok, so it's not about the number of rebuys then.. You won't rebuy after losing the 2nd buyin after 55 mins, but you will after losing the 10th after 15 mins?

I'm gonna finally take myself up on adding to this at some point in the future.

Great post Chard

What are your thoughts on sitting out once you hit a certain sized stack during the rebuy hour ? In very loose rebuys I've often sat out once I reached 12k chips, which is basically my rebuy hour aim. I'd rather do this than spew half that stack with only 7 mins left and no time to make it back

I would never "sit out". I will definitely tighten up.

So you sit out and miss getting AA and an extra 3000+ chips? Like Andy said, if you don't trust yourself to play well, don't play..

good post- and thread. A very similar line to Rippy's post on rebuys... I look forward to having a BR that will allow me to play rebuys !

Smile

And they are saying don't take a small edge as well.
But if a big one comes your way in those last 5 minutes, why not take it?
You're in the big blind with AA and SB just went AI preflop. But you sat out and missed it. That kind of thing.

Great post Chardrian. I'm not really playing rebuys yet, but now I know how I'm going to when I do.

How much did you win in the tourney? Must have been a couple of grand.

I didn't really get to read through this, it's too long! but i'll read it soon. I got a rough picture of how to play. I've entered 2 rebuy tourneys in my life. Both times I only had enough money for buyin and then 1 rebuy. I didn't have any money to buy an addon.
The 2nd tournament I played in, I was going in for about 5% of the hands - literally (i wasn't getting anything but hands like a2 unsuited i wouldnt have considered playing). I couldn't rebuy more than once so I had to look after my money. Next time I play rebuy i'll make sure I can afford a few rebuys and an addon. Also, i'll play a lot more hands.

Thanks for the advice

I just read through this post and realized that I can't afford to play rebuys. They're just way too expensive.

I don't want to be betting £10 ($20) on a hand like A2(s/o) preflop. Even if it means winning a few hundred at the end. I just can't afford it.

You don't HAVE to play the rebuy hour as a maniac. It's just one way to get yourself a decent stack that first hour.

As long as you are willing to rebuy twice if you do get sucked out on that first hour, there is nothing wrong with playing tight that first hour.

Paradise now lets you sign up for the rebuy at any point during the first hour. I think a decent strategy for a low risk player would be to simply buy-in twice at the end of the first hour and then add-on.... You don't give yourself the chance to accumulate a huge stack that first hour, but you are giving yourself enough chips (5,500) that you can play some normal poker for an hour and you are entering a tourney with a huge prize pool and less entrants than what started.

just curious, what are your best wins/results from rebuy tourneys...?

I have FTed the Dise nightly $30 rebuy 5 times my best finish there is just 3rd though.

I have won the afternoon $30 rebuy for $10k as my best win.

I am still waiting to take down the nightly one.

Helpful or harmful, when most will probably do a 180 after the break?
______________________________

Taking notes on players during the rebuy period?

Running a HUD during the rebuy hour?

Any new updates for this Rebuy Strategy for PS? Last time it was only 1 hour rebuy period but now it's 90 minutes.
Do you still think that it is a good idea to do a fresh rebuy after you go bust after the 1st hour?
The blinds usually have gone up to 50/100 after the first hour so the best option is push/fold because you can't really afford to limp and play passive with 3000 chips.

Poker Forum

Join Our Poker Community!

Poker Forum Index

Multi-Table Tourney Tactics

Discussion: chardrian's Rebuy Strategy

Poker Forum Index

Multi-Table Tourney Tactics

Discussion: chardrian's Rebuy Strategy