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Posted: Thu, 18 Jan 2007, 6:56pm Post subject: Craps |
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Full House
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 1063
WPP: 166
Location: Germany
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| Anyone know how to approach craps with 100 bucks smart? |
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Posted: Thu, 18 Jan 2007, 8:14pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3103
WPP: 82
Location: calling
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Online or casino? In a casino you aren't going to find a cheap enough game to play craps smart with only $100. The best bet in almost every casino is pass line with max odds. But that means you're betting at least $20 and sometimes $50 (depending on what odds they let you lay). If it's online, who knows, there might be places that let you play $1 pass line bet and 100X odds, which would be sweet. You always want to play as little as you can on the pass line and then as much as you can afford on odds behind it. If you had more money you would be thinking about playing come bets and laying odds on those too. Lowers the house edge even further but increases variance. I  craps. Check out this page:
http://wizardofodds.com/craps |
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Posted: Fri, 19 Jan 2007, 9:36pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 1063
WPP: 166
Location: Germany
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| zook wrote: | | Online or casino? In a casino you aren't going to find a cheap enough game to play craps smart with only $100. The best bet in almost every casino is pass line with max odds. But that means you're betting at least $20 and sometimes $50 (depending on what odds they let you lay) |
Zook thanks for replying. I will be in a casino. I am thinking 5.00 min. I am thinking pass line 5.00 and 10 behind it depending on the point. When I rack 52.00 - the rake I can play 27.00 across a couple times with a hot shooter. Or are you saying only play the pass line? I am going to read the article now. This has always been my strategy with 100.00 starting. 5.00 with 15 behind is 20 a pop... I am sunk after 5 bad rolls. Always 1.00 Crap Check on my 5.00 aswell. Anything Iam doing wrong here? |
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Posted: Fri, 19 Jan 2007, 10:21pm Post subject: |
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HABITUAL LINE-STEPPER
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 5129
WPP: 73
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
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| this is -EV like blackjack, right? (forgive me im ignant) |
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Posted: Fri, 19 Jan 2007, 10:52pm Post subject: |
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Straight Flush
Joined: 04 Jul 2006
Posts: 4321
WPP: 82
Location: Pwnsylvania
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| Renton wrote: | | this is -EV like blackjack, right? (forgive me im ignant) | I consider craps @ the casino to +EV b/c of the fun factor. Blackjack can be fun with the right crowd but craps always seems to be a good time. Plus, if you're willing to walk away it can be grossly profitable. |
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Posted: Fri, 19 Jan 2007, 11:21pm Post subject: |
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HABITUAL LINE-STEPPER
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 5129
WPP: 73
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
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| bigspenda73 wrote: | | Plus, if you're willing to walk away it can be grossly profitable. |
ugh, you have to be kidding |
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Posted: Fri, 19 Jan 2007, 11:28pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3103
WPP: 82
Location: calling
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fasin8ing: With that BR I think you should just play a $5 pass line bet and as much as you're willing to risk behind it. The odds bet is the best in the casino, the only one with no house advantage. (No player advantage either, of course, but a coin flip is better than you'll do anywhere else.  ) If you really want more action, you should place come bets and then odds on the numbers once they go up. But you really don't have the BR for that. Just my opinion. Whatever you do, stay away from any bets in the middle of the table.
Renton: Yeah, it's still -EV. If you play right (which 95% of people don't) it's the least -EV of any casino game though. Casinos that offer $1 craps with 100X odds have a really miniscule edge (less than 0.1% I think).
bigspenda: Yeah it's so much fun. And I've won a couple grand playing, but that's ALL luck. In the long run, craps will get you just like blackjack. |
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Posted: Fri, 19 Jan 2007, 11:29pm Post subject: |
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Straight Flush
Joined: 04 Jul 2006
Posts: 4321
WPP: 82
Location: Pwnsylvania
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| Renton wrote: | | bigspenda73 wrote: | | Plus, if you're willing to walk away it can be grossly profitable. |
ugh, you have to be kidding | The word "rush" ring any bells? I turned $100 into $1500 once with one roller. |
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Posted: Sat, 20 Jan 2007, 12:58pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 2898
WPP: 109
Location: searching for something...
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Putting more odds does reduce the house edge, however after 3x it becomes extremely marginal. This .4% house edge means -$0.4o if you're wagering $100.
With $100 I would only bet the pass line and put $10 odds on any point. {EDITED}
I consider craps +eV partially because of the fun, but mostly cuz of free drinks in Vegas. Playing for 8 hours and leaving down $10 having no idea how it became daylight outside is +eV, IMO.
BTW, Casino Royale is across the street from the mirage and has a $2 table. |
Last edited by swiggidy on Sat, 20 Jan 2007, 4:15pm; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Sat, 20 Jan 2007, 1:58pm Post subject: |
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Straight Flush
Joined: 04 Jul 2006
Posts: 4321
WPP: 82
Location: Pwnsylvania
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| swiggidy wrote: |
BTW, Casino Royale is across the street from the mirage and has a $2 table. |
LOL@Casino Royale. $2 Ultras and strawberry margaritas FTW. They also have Blackjack Switch and are right next to Mcdonalds, Panda Express, Outback, and most importantly, Chipotle. |
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Posted: Sat, 20 Jan 2007, 3:16pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 906
WPP: 92
Location: SoCal
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Without a dobt, I AM ignant. Really.  |
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Posted: Sat, 20 Jan 2007, 3:46pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 1063
WPP: 166
Location: Germany
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| swiggidy wrote: | Playing for 8 hours and leaving down $10 having no idea how it became daylight outside is +eV, IMO.
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LOLOLOLOL... Puerto Rico was an 9 hour rush I will never forget. 9 hours of Craps... Can you dig it? |
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Posted: Sat, 20 Jan 2007, 4:27pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 2898
WPP: 109
Location: searching for something...
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| pm wrote: | Agree or Disagree?
The most conservative approach I can think of with 100.00 -
5 on the pass 10-15 behind it only when the point is 6 or 8 .
Thoughts? | No reason to make this a pm. Since we (at the very least) have a small group of craps fans might as well continue discussion.
I have some code written but I won't have time to run simulations today. I'll run some simulations. Are we trying to minimize variance to gain the most amount of playing time without hurting the eV too much?
Odds of hitting 4 or T are 2:1, so 33%. Odds of missing 6 in a row (because 6x($5 + $10) = $90) is 0.66^6 = 8% which is decently high, thus an argument against placing odds on a 4 or T. However, there is a big jump in eV when adding odds so I think you have to put at least 1x odds on 4, 5, 9, T. Putting 3x odds on anything will greatly increase your chance of busto.
So my guess at a conservative strategy is 1x odds on 4, 5, 9, T and 2x on 6,8. Don't place any come bets.
I'm "working" on a BJ post. I put working in quotes because I'm not currently working on it and I need to finish it. After I do maybe I'll throw together a craps post so people can know how long their stack will last playing with 3x odds, or 3x odds and 3 come bets, etc. |
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Posted: Sat, 20 Jan 2007, 9:17pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 1063
WPP: 166
Location: Germany
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| swiggidy wrote: |
I'm "working" on a BJ post. I put working in quotes because I'm not currently working on it and I need to finish it. After I do maybe I'll throw together a craps post so people can know how long their stack will last playing with 3x odds, or 3x odds and 3 come bets, etc. |
See if you can run it with 200.00 playing exactly how you you said with 1X and 2 X odds. For the most part, we want the conservative approach like that to be prfitable to start playing crazy shit like 27 across, hardways, and so forth. I dont mind making these bets with someone who has proven they roll for a while. And taking 50-60 bucks into a single roll after the point has been made can be extremely profitable, or a couple of bad streaks with your hot roller canreally break you. I am thinking if we can break 500 - we can start dilly dallying around. |
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Posted: Sat, 20 Jan 2007, 9:29pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3103
WPP: 82
Location: calling
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Never play the "crazy shit", they're just terrible bets. If you really want more action, lay the 6 and 8 when the point is something else. Not as good a bet as pass line + odds, but at least you're not giving away your money. Personally, when I want action, I keep throwing come bets up and putting full odds on. You'll win a ton or go broke it a hurry, but it's a rush and as close to neutral EV as you can get from a casino game.
Also, a hot shooter is just lucky and there's nothing else to it. The dice have no memory. I know there are a few people out there who can set dice, but I guarantee they don't play at the $5 and under tables. |
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Posted: Sun, 21 Jan 2007, 12:02am Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 1063
WPP: 166
Location: Germany
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| zook wrote: | | Never play the "crazy shit", they're just terrible bets. If you really want more action, lay the 6 and 8 when the point is something else. |
Your saying dont make place bets? |
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Posted: Sun, 21 Jan 2007, 9:48am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3103
WPP: 82
Location: calling
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| fasin8ing wrote: | | Your saying dont make place bets? |
Placing the 6 and 8 is ok, but still more -EV than pass line + odds. Placing the 5&9 or 4&10 is bad. I really meant hard ways, yo bets, field bets, etc. If you read that wizard of odds page you should be all set for knowing what not to play. |
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Posted: Sun, 21 Jan 2007, 11:28am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 2898
WPP: 109
Location: searching for something...
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| fasin8ing wrote: | | For the most part, we want the conservative approach like that to be prfitable ... | It will never be profitable. You can go conservative (i.e. low variance) and play for a long time. You can try to "double-up" which is high-variance. If you want cash to fuck around with put max odds on 6&8 and hope variance doesn't bite you in the ass quickly. You can't have a conservative, quick win game plan.
Also what zook said. |
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Posted: Sun, 30 Dec 2007, 7:37pm Post subject: |
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One Pair
Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Posts: 20
WPP: 85
Location: SoCal
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Craps is fun, and has the highest odds of all the casino games played. If your going to the table with just $100, then your going to need to have a little luck if your going to play very long.
As far as how to appoach the game with that amount of money, I suggest play the minimum on the passline, with maximum odds behind it. Once you build a little of a stack, you can play the come (just like the passline) to place additional numbers. Just make sure that you bet the odds, otherwise your not maximizing your potential.
Good luck
-Shep! |
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Posted: Sun, 20 Jan 2008, 1:58am Post subject: |
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High Card
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 6
WPP: 44
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| I heard that the EV of craps is very different depending of the casinos... How are era the different? where are the most profitable craps? |
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Posted: Sun, 20 Jan 2008, 12:19pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 2898
WPP: 109
Location: searching for something...
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| the only EV difference would be the odds your allowed to place. The edge changes quite a bit from 1x to 2x odds, less for 3x and it starts to become more negligible after that. As Nx goes to infinity you'll approach 50% (i.e. no house advantage) |
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Posted: Mon, 19 May 2008, 5:34am Post subject: |
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Solicitor
Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 13
WPP: 14
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