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Posted: Fri, 27 Mar 2009, 7:19am Post subject: Could someone clue me in on ranges for this spot
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 3659
WPP: 76
Location: over there
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3 Hands, all with the same action. What kinda ranges have they got when this happens? The types of villains in these hands I 3bet like 9-10% from position. They fold to 3bets a fair % OOP I would assume.
Villain is 35/29/3 over 300 hands.
$2/$4 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
100bb's all round
Pre-flop: ($6, 5 players) Hero is  
MP raises to $14, 1 fold, Hero raises to $40 from the button, 2 folds, MP calls $26
Flop:    ($86, 2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks
Turn:  ($86, 2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks
River:  ($86, 2 players)
MP bets $72, $72 to Hero ($446.25)?
Villain is 25/21/4
$2/$4 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
100bb's all round
Pre-flop: ($6, 5 players) Hero is  
MP raises to $14, Hero raises to $40 from the CO, 3 folds, MP calls $26
Flop:   ($86, 2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks
Turn:  ($86, 2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks
River:  ($86, 2 players)
MP bets $45, $45 to Hero ($386.40)?
Villain is 25/18/3
$2/$4 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
CO ($521.00)
Hero (BTN) ($474.50)
SB ($601.60)
BB ($762.75)
Pre-flop: ($6, 4 players) Hero is BTN  
CO raises to $14, Hero raises to $44, 2 folds, CO calls $30
Flop:    ($94, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks
Turn: ($94, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks
River:  ($94, 2 players)
CO bets $80, $80 to Hero ($430.50)? |
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Posted: Fri, 27 Mar 2009, 9:36am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 3304
WPP: 87
Location: Toronto'ish
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I think these all really depend on what level villain is on and think you are on.
hand 1 - I like the check here, since it's super drawy and you'll likely get bombed a lot. I think villain can show up with anything on this river, thinking you decided to give up on a wet board. Enough air to call river.
hand 2 - I would bet this flop to merge my range and potentially take him off better hands on later streets (99-JJ type stuff). I would also bet because people love bluff raising dry A/K high boards like this, and I'd be reasonably happy getting it in vs some ppl. River is tough and Q sucks pretty hard. Confusing spot since I'd expect ppl to value bet 99-JJ on the river but I'm not sure if they do on this Q now.
hand 3 - I think I like a turn bet here as board is getting a little ridiculous. I can't imagine villain not leading any reasonably hand (that beats us) on the turn to protect. I probably call here. |
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Posted: Sun, 29 Mar 2009, 10:25am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 3737
WPP: 81
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when flop and turn go check-check it gets pretty random putting ppl on narrow ranges
fwiw the only one that I'd snap is hand #1 but I don't think it'd be a mistake calling 2 and/or 3. Too lazy and busy to do detailed range thingy but you did a pretty good job of repping AK in hand 1, TT in hand 2 and 88 in hand 3... |
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Posted: Tue, 31 Mar 2009, 5:52pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 3659
WPP: 76
Location: over there
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Posted: Tue, 31 Mar 2009, 8:01pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Posts: 1031
WPP: 92
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One thing to consider that I'm not sure many people think about is that when villain checks a second time in these spots then pots the river, he's going to show up with a huge hand a bit more often than when he makes like a hpsb on river after checking twice.
Reason for this being that once you check back the flop, if villain wants to get all the money in the pot there's actually no way to do so by him just betting turn and betting river, so he has to hope you decide to throw in a bet on the turn so that he can then raise. If he pots river, I suppose it could be a merge w/ a weak pair looking for value from A high, but it seems to me that most players don't think on this high of a level nor do they expect their opponents to. That's why something like a hpsb could be something like AK looking for value from a weaker A high or a small pair looking for value from an ace IMO.
Though because we didn't bet at any point there's certainly no reason for villain to not have some kind of hand w/ middle type strength that missed putting in a bet on the turn or didn't feel strong enough to bet though felt it was better as a bluff catcher. |
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Posted: Tue, 31 Mar 2009, 9:32pm Post subject:
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midstakes donk
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 2979
WPP: 43
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
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| id bet flop or turn in hands 1 and 2 every time. as played id probably call 1 and fold 2. hand 3 i think is ok and id fold riv |
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Posted: Wed, 01 Apr 2009, 9:44am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 3659
WPP: 76
Location: over there
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OK that's interesting nuts. I can see betting the turn in both hands and actually I think that's a better line then just checking down but I see no reason to bet the flop unless in hand 1 we are bet/calling and in hand 2 we are barrelling the turn a huge % of the time. Are they reasonable assumptions.
Also I don't really get why you consider betting the flop in hand 1 but not in 3? |
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Posted: Wed, 01 Apr 2009, 12:08pm Post subject:
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Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6594
WPP: 74
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In threebet pots im inclined to fold these all, but hand 1 i may call.
I'd bet turn in hand 1 and 2. |
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