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Posted: Fri, 21 Mar 2008, 1:26pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 1103
WPP: 142
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| average hourly rate, if you don't mind sharing. |
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Posted: Fri, 21 Mar 2008, 1:36pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| Robb wrote: | | You said above that you typically don't play 22-66 from EP. At 10nl, raising all pp's was very profitable (and I have stats for it). At 25nl, it's somewhat profitable, but may be a wash with a limp. But these hands are (imo) very profitable from all positions at microstakes, probably because villains suck so much. When does this change? At what limit did you begin not playing 22--66 very often from EP? |
There's no doubt that it's profitable at 25nl. If I had to guess, I would say it's best to stop at 50nl. I personally stopped at 100nl after I discovered they weren't being particularly profitable. |
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Posted: Fri, 21 Mar 2008, 1:41pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| d0zer wrote: | | spoonitnow wrote: | | That's easier said than done, especially when you pay your taxes. |
Like...income tax, or da billz? |
Based on making $100,000 in 2008, federal income taxes will be about 22%. My state income tax is 7%. Self-employment taxes are 15.3%. The result: 44.3%.
Of course there are various deductions I can pull, but nothing too major since I don't really spend on much to begin with. |
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Posted: Fri, 21 Mar 2008, 1:45pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| pgil wrote: | | average hourly rate, if you don't mind sharing. |
At 100nl when I'm 16-tabling only non-fast tables I get right around 900 hands/hour. Over my past 150k or so I've been between 4 ptbb/100 and 4.5 ptbb/100. That's between $72 and $81 an hour.
In January, before I stopped playing 200nl, I played a little over 70k hands at the level with a win-rate that (when adjusted for AI equity) was over 3 ptbb/100. I also pulled around 900 hands/hour, so around $100-110/hour. My actual win-rate was about 2.3-2.5 ptbb/100, but my PokerEV luck graph from that month still makes me laugh.  |
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Posted: Fri, 21 Mar 2008, 1:48pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 1103
WPP: 142
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awesome.
I would imagine your computer, internet, and a portion of your housing costs could all be deductions could they not? If not, you should look into setting things up so that they can be.
Some sort of business, pay yourself a salary type of situation. |
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Posted: Fri, 21 Mar 2008, 2:04pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| pgil wrote: | awesome.
I would imagine your computer, internet, and a portion of your housing costs could all be deductions could they not? If not, you should look into setting things up so that they can be.
Some sort of business, pay yourself a salary type of situation. |
I'm not comfortable giving any sort of tax-related advice. However, I will say that at least portions of those things can be deducted if done correctly. |
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Posted: Fri, 21 Mar 2008, 2:45pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 1103
WPP: 142
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| me neither, just sort of floating ideas that you may not have thought about. obviously anything tax related would have to go through an accountant. |
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Posted: Fri, 21 Mar 2008, 3:32pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 2572
WPP: 145
Location: GA
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| spoonitnow wrote: | | pgil wrote: | awesome.
I would imagine your computer, internet, and a portion of your housing costs could all be deductions could they not? If not, you should look into setting things up so that they can be.
Some sort of business, pay yourself a salary type of situation. |
I'm not comfortable giving any sort of tax-related advice. However, I will say that at least portions of those things can be deducted if done correctly. |
I'm not comfortable giving advice on taxes either, except to say this. I do a bit of consulting on the side. Deducting business expenses for a home office is one of the red alerts that gets you audited more frequently. If your expenses aren't that much (say $1,000 or less, for poker - what do you need to play, really?), it's probably not worth it. Allowable business expenses are very tricky to justify properly, and I wouldn't do it without advice from a tax expert - which costs money. |
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Posted: Fri, 21 Mar 2008, 4:27pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| Robb wrote: | | spoonitnow wrote: | | pgil wrote: | awesome.
I would imagine your computer, internet, and a portion of your housing costs could all be deductions could they not? If not, you should look into setting things up so that they can be.
Some sort of business, pay yourself a salary type of situation. |
I'm not comfortable giving any sort of tax-related advice. However, I will say that at least portions of those things can be deducted if done correctly. |
I'm not comfortable giving advice on taxes either, except to say this. I do a bit of consulting on the side. Deducting business expenses for a home office is one of the red alerts that gets you audited more frequently. If your expenses aren't that much (say $1,000 or less, for poker - what do you need to play, really?), it's probably not worth it. Allowable business expenses are very tricky to justify properly, and I wouldn't do it without advice from a tax expert - which costs money. |
That was actually a part of the tax advice I wasn't going to give. GG sir. |
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Posted: Fri, 21 Mar 2008, 5:40pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 2572
WPP: 145
Location: GA
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| spoonitnow wrote: | | That was actually a part of the tax advice I wasn't going to give. GG sir. |
LoL. the MAN is going to get his, if you play by the rules. No way around it that's legal and ethical. |
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Posted: Fri, 21 Mar 2008, 5:54pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| Robb wrote: | | spoonitnow wrote: | | That was actually a part of the tax advice I wasn't going to give. GG sir. |
LoL. the MAN is going to get his, if you play by the rules. No way around it that's legal and ethical. |
I have no problem with this. I can sit on a computer and play a card game, and after taxes make more than most people do before taxes -- and I'm not even that good. |
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Posted: Fri, 21 Mar 2008, 6:12pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 651
WPP: 134
Location: Leaf Nation
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| spoonitnow wrote: | | Robb wrote: | | spoonitnow wrote: | | That was actually a part of the tax advice I wasn't going to give. GG sir. |
LoL. the MAN is going to get his, if you play by the rules. No way around it that's legal and ethical. |
I have no problem with this. I can sit on a computer and play a card game, and after taxes make more than most people do before taxes -- and I'm not even that good. |
Its cuz u play at $100 NL where they respect your raises.
{acronym Renton hates} |
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Posted: Fri, 21 Mar 2008, 6:14pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 2572
WPP: 145
Location: GA
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Question: where do you find 20 nl200 tables? Stars? Can you open that many tables at once, or do you have to play two (or more) sites at once?
NB: I can barely find enough nl25 fr tables to multitable 8 - 10 at UB/Absolute combined. |
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Posted: Fri, 21 Mar 2008, 6:16pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 651
WPP: 134
Location: Leaf Nation
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| Robb wrote: | Question: where do you find 20 nl200 tables? Stars? Can you open that many tables at once, or do you have to play two (or more) sites at once?
NB: I can barely find enough nl25 fr tables to multitable 8 - 10 at UB/Absolute combined. |
Stars pwwwwwwwwns. |
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Posted: Fri, 21 Mar 2008, 6:49pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| Robb wrote: | Question: where do you find 20 nl200 tables? Stars? Can you open that many tables at once, or do you have to play two (or more) sites at once?
NB: I can barely find enough nl25 fr tables to multitable 8 - 10 at UB/Absolute combined. |
On PokerStars you can play up to 24 tables of cash, and there are a lot more than that running at each level 200nl and down all day. |
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Posted: Fri, 21 Mar 2008, 7:13pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 18762
WPP: 81
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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| Robb wrote: | | You said above that you typically don't play 22-66 from EP. At 10nl, raising all pp's was very profitable (and I have stats for it). At 25nl, it's somewhat profitable, but may be a wash with a limp. But these hands are (imo) very profitable from all positions at microstakes, probably because villains suck so much. When does this change? At what limit did you begin not playing 22--66 very often from EP? |
This stops becomming profitable when players 3-bet more often and won't always stack-off with over-pairs. Basically, only online mid-stakes games.
To contrast this, in my typical live game, lots of players won't 3-bet less than AA/KK some will cold call light (including offsuit broadways), then will pay-off more often post-flop. |
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Posted: Fri, 21 Mar 2008, 7:21pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 18762
WPP: 81
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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| daven wrote: | holding TT on the button, 4 limpers, raise or call? Same from SB
also AJs, AKo |
TT: Raise, Call (raise in passive post-flop tight games)
AJs: Raise (call in wild games), Call (raise in passive post-flop tight games)
AK: Raise, Raise (sometimes call if the BB is frisky)
I will also bluff raise out of the SB here. |
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Posted: Fri, 21 Mar 2008, 10:03pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 7939
WPP: 71
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
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question:
are you capable fo beating 5/10nl in any game type? eg 6max, fr etc etc |
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Posted: Fri, 21 Mar 2008, 10:12pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 306
WPP: 145
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| Did you ever have a point where the light just came on regarding how to put someone on an accurate hand range (if so, explain what happened), or was it something that you just gradually got better at with practice? |
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Posted: Fri, 21 Mar 2008, 11:13pm Post subject:
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Two Pair
Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 31
WPP: 216
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| Quote: |
On my pop-up stats, I like to have won SD when raised turn and same for river. This helps in a lot of spots that are easy to mess up, like overpairs on a seemingly safe board facing a big turn raise.
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Great tip; I added this immediately. What percentages do you look for before you put them on a bluff, and how much history do you need before you trust the read? |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 12:02am Post subject:
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Eats babies
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 3895
WPP: 109
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| Pasta wrote: | | Quote: |
On my pop-up stats, I like to have won SD when raised turn and same for river. This helps in a lot of spots that are easy to mess up, like overpairs on a seemingly safe board facing a big turn raise.
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Great tip; I added this immediately. What percentages do you look for before you put them on a bluff, and how much history do you need before you trust the read? | |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 5:01am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 306
WPP: 145
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| Pasta wrote: | | how much history do you need before you trust the read? |
I'm curious about this part too. |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 8:28am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| Miffed22001 wrote: | question:
are you capable fo beating 5/10nl in any game type? eg 6max, fr etc etc |
If I bought in for 100bb, I don't know to be honest. I would say that the best chance would be full ring, however.
If I bought in for less then I know I could beat it, but short-stacking is for homos and future cops. |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 8:33am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| Hawkfan79 wrote: | | Did you ever have a point where the light just came on regarding how to put someone on an accurate hand range (if so, explain what happened), or was it something that you just gradually got better at with practice? |
Putting people on ranges is something that people make so much harder than it is. You just start preflop with what you know about the person and say okay he probably has blah blah or blah or blah or maybe blah blah. Then as action continues in the hand you ask yourself which of those hands he would play like that and go from there.
Once I realized that the process is much easier than I was trying to make it, then I almost instantly got a bit better post-flop. I'm not extremely good at it by any means, but I have a good enough idea of what villains have on later streets that I'm making a lot more on the turn and especially river than I was say three months ago.
The thing is this -- it takes a lot of practice. There is no miracle solution that's instantly going to make you read hands near-perfectly, and that's a good thing. If it didn't take hard work, everybody would do it, and everybody would be a lot better at poker. |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 8:40am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| Pasta wrote: | | Quote: |
On my pop-up stats, I like to have won SD when raised turn and same for river. This helps in a lot of spots that are easy to mess up, like overpairs on a seemingly safe board facing a big turn raise.
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Great tip; I added this immediately. What percentages do you look for before you put them on a bluff, and how much history do you need before you trust the read? |
There are no exact guidelines, but I'll give you an example of when it could help with the spot I discussed above.
You raise preflop with A  A  from MP and only a 14/4/1.5 calls you from the CO. Effective stacks are about 120bb. The flop comes K  9 4  and you lead the flop. Villain calls. The turn comes J . You decide to lead the turn since he could have a flush draw with a plan of check/calling a blank river. Instead of calling, villain raises you enough that if you call then you'll be forced to get it all-in on the river. A quick look to his stats shows that you have around 1750 hands on him and of the 6 times he's raised the turn and it went to showdown, he's won all 6. |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 8:43am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| Hawkfan79 wrote: | | Pasta wrote: | | how much history do you need before you trust the read? |
I'm curious about this part too. |
Keep in mind that these two stats are only pieces of the puzzle. They're not going to point you in the right direction by themselves, but can be used in context with everything else to sometimes give you a better idea of how your opponent plays. I recommend using those two stats since the pieces of the puzzle they provide can help our EV in some of the toughest spots on later streets: when villain's raise. |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 8:44am Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 18762
WPP: 81
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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| spoonitnow wrote: | | You raise preflop with A A from MP and only a 14/4/1.5 calls you from the CO. Effective stacks are about 120bb. The flop comes K 9 4 and you lead the flop. Villain calls. The turn comes J . You decide to lead the turn since he could have a flush draw with a plan of check/calling a blank river. Instead of calling, villain raises you enough that if you call then you'll be forced to get it all-in on the river. A quick look to his stats shows that you have around 1750 hands on him and of the 6 times he's raised the turn and it went to showdown, he's won all 6. |
If he had a higher PFR, then I would discount AK and still would discount KK.
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.848% 34.85% 00.00% 276 0.00 { AcAh }
Hand 1: 65.152% 65.15% 00.00% 516 0.00 { KK, JJ, 99, 44, AKs, AKo } |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 11:49am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 3614
WPP: 52
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| have you ever been ahead on every one of your 18 tables at once? |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 2:38pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| martindcx1e wrote: | | have you ever been ahead on every one of your 18 tables at once? |
I only win about 52% of sessions on each individual table. That means on average out of 18 tables I would only win on 9.
As for your question, I'm not sure to be honest. |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 3:26pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 2572
WPP: 145
Location: GA
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| spoonitnow wrote: | | martindcx1e wrote: | | have you ever been ahead on every one of your 18 tables at once? |
I only win about 52% of sessions on each individual table. That means on average out of 18 tables I would only win on 9.
As for your question, I'm not sure to be honest. |
Assuming a coin flip for ahead/behind, the odds would be 2^18 to 1 against. Using 52% as an estimate (which is flawed, but our only option), odds are 7.7x10^-6 to 1 against.
To put that in perspective, the odds of the board in HE making a royal flush are 1.6x10^-6 to 1 against. So spoon is likely to be ahead on 18 tables at once about every four times he sees a royal flush on the board.
Just having fun. Sorry about the math geek reply.
If you don't like the math, here's the short answer: probably not. |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 4:04pm Post subject:
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Straight Flush
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 7939
WPP: 71
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
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As you probably have a decent sample size and are pretty much killing the games...
1. How good have you run at best eg 25bbs/100 over 8k sample etc etc
2. And obviously, how bad have you run at your worst.
Answers will be interesting to compare to those who still have relatively small samples |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 4:10pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 1449
WPP: 63
Location: NS, Canada
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what PT stats do you put on the table?  any PAHUD layout shared with us? i always have trouble reading some stats easily when multitabling heavily on stars. |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 4:19pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 3614
WPP: 52
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| Robb wrote: | | spoonitnow wrote: | | martindcx1e wrote: | | have you ever been ahead on every one of your 18 tables at once? |
I only win about 52% of sessions on each individual table. That means on average out of 18 tables I would only win on 9.
As for your question, I'm not sure to be honest. |
Assuming a coin flip for ahead/behind, the odds would be 2^18 to 1 against. Using 52% as an estimate (which is flawed, but our only option), odds are 7.7x10^-6 to 1 against.
To put that in perspective, the odds of the board in HE making a royal flush are 1.6x10^-6 to 1 against. So spoon is likely to be ahead on 18 tables at once about every four times he sees a royal flush on the board.
Just having fun. Sorry about the math geek reply.
If you don't like the math, here's the short answer: probably not. |
ok how about just over 100bb's on every table at once? |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 5:44pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 3393
WPP: 82
Location: the ether
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| martindcx1e wrote: |
ok how about just over 100bb's on every table at once? |
if you keep your stack full, then it's inevitable eventually |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 6:50pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 3614
WPP: 52
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| daven wrote: | | martindcx1e wrote: |
ok how about just over 100bb's on every table at once? |
if you keep your stack full, then it's inevitable eventually |
ya i guess so. i have no clue about that many tables lol. |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 7:09pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| Miffed22001 wrote: | As you probably have a decent sample size and are pretty much killing the games...
1. How good have you run at best eg 25bbs/100 over 8k sample etc etc
2. And obviously, how bad have you run at your worst.
Answers will be interesting to compare to those who still have relatively small samples |
I've won a little over 10 buy-ins at 100nl in under 1500 hands before, so whatever the win-rate is there.
I broke even at 100nl over around 80k hands after beating my first 80k for about 2.5 ptbb/100.
In January at 200nl I went 1 ptbb/100 over my first 40k hands -- my adjusted equity showed that I should have been closer to 4 ptbb/100. |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 7:13pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| pokerfan wrote: | | what PT stats do you put on the table? any PAHUD layout shared with us? i always have trouble reading some stats easily when multitabling heavily on stars. |
http://www.ssgrinder.com/spoon.pah is my current 9-max PAHUD layout.
On the table I show VP$IP, PFR, Total Aggression Postflop, and Attempted to Steal. I use a sort of dark purple because it blends goes fairly well with the Hyper Simple background.
My pop-up stats are as follows:
Name
Total Hands
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VP$IP
PFR
Attempted to Steal
Folded SB to Steal
Folded BB to Steal
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Flop Aggression
Turn Aggression
River Aggression
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Continuation Bet
Folds Continuation Bet
Calls Continuation Bet
Raises Continuation Bet
------------------------------
Won SD When Raise Turn
Won SD When Raise River
If you're having trouble reading the stats, remember that you can change the fold size in the layout manager. |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 7:14pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| daven wrote: | | martindcx1e wrote: |
ok how about just over 100bb's on every table at once? |
if you keep your stack full, then it's inevitable eventually | |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 7:16pm Post subject:
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3-of-a-Kind
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 101
WPP: 96
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| I DONT WANT TO POST HERE SPOON. DUCY? |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 7:17pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| fat-b wrote: | | I DONT WANT TO POST HERE SPOON. DUCY? |
No sorry, I don't. |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 7:49pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 3393
WPP: 82
Location: the ether
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are you break-even or ahead AA>KK vs KK<AA?
actually, that's hard to know i guess - cos to be ahead you have to be folding KK without knowing if it's a set or AA that has you on the flop. Ever fold KK pre? thoughts on this? |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 9:15pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| daven wrote: | are you break-even or ahead AA>KK vs KK<AA?
actually, that's hard to know i guess - cos to be ahead you have to be folding KK without knowing if it's a set or AA that has you on the flop. Ever fold KK pre? thoughts on this? |
Over an extremely long-term sample I would suspect that I would run ahead. The reasons for this is that my opponents overplay KK on an Axx flop more than I do and I think I can sniff out a set with AA on Kxx better than they can.
Occasionally I'll fold KK preflop, even just 100bb deep. People do this way too much in general, but sometimes it's correct.
Here's a simple rule of thumb to keep in mind that I'm pulling out of my ass: if you add a player's VP$IP to their PFR, and that number is greater than 10, then you probably shouldn't fold KK preflop at just 100bb deep unless you have some read about how they play AA. |
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Posted: Sat, 22 Mar 2008, 11:55pm Post subject:
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3-of-a-Kind
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 101
WPP: 96
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| I have folded KK three times ish in my life spoon ! 2 of them was correct. Does this make me a good pokerplayer ? |
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Posted: Sun, 23 Mar 2008, 7:37am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| fat-b wrote: | | I have folded KK three times ish in my life spoon ! 2 of them was correct. Does this make me a good pokerplayer ? |
It depends on your sample. |
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Posted: Sun, 23 Mar 2008, 10:20am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 1449
WPP: 63
Location: NS, Canada
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spoon,i just lost my KK to a donk's AA with 200BB this weekend but your magic number is huge in my case, ouch.  In that situation, the donk minraised 4 limpers in SB, i 3 bet big from big blind and then he min 4 bet vip$ip:73.33% and PFR : 13.33% let me NEVER fold my kk whatsoever.
| spoonitnow wrote: |
Here's a simple rule of thumb to keep in mind that I'm pulling out of my ass: if you add a player's VP$IP to their PFR, and that number is greater than 10, then you probably shouldn't fold KK preflop at just 100bb deep unless you have some read about how they play AA. | |
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Posted: Sun, 23 Mar 2008, 1:55pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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I was asked the following in IRC, and I thought to share it here since he's currently playing:
| wesrman wrote: | | how can i get my hands to hold up |
Your hands do hold up. They hold up exactly the amount of time they are supposed to -- no more, no less.
The fact that you asked this question shows that you, like many players, are not focused on parts of poker that they should be. Moreover, by giving attention to things like how you seem to be "running", you cause psychological ripples that easily turn into waves that can ruin your performance and can run your quality of life into the ground.
The core of all of this is results-oriented thinking, but often it's hard to see exactly why thinking about results is such a bad thing, so I'll elaborate a bit on a few ideas that you can think about on your own. While we're obviously concerned with poker, these ideas have to do with performance in all things. When you really apply these ideas, your whole life will benefit, not just poker.
Presence in the moment is easily the most important idea you could ever take from anything I ever talk about. The idea of presence is that you are "there" mentally in the moment in which things are happening. It's the present that largely matters, not the past and not the future. While often we can learn from the past or plan for the future, the factors that are affecting your decision NOW are what are important.
What takes us away from having presence are numerous distractions and bad mental habits, most of which are self-imposed. If you get sucked out on, and you take the time to put the hand into a converter and post it into IRC or on the boards or where ever, you've already lost presence because you're taking attention away from the immediate and into something that isn't important. If you want to ask about a hand, that's obviously fine, but in the middle of a session isn't the best time for it. Have a Notepad window open and either quickly copy the HH to it or jot down the hand number so that during your time allotted to study poker you can come back to it.
The biggest thing in poker that prevents us from having presence other than our distractions outside of the game is our emotional attachment to what was and our inability to realize what is. When we have QQ preflop and have a chance to 3-bet a loose player, emotionally we feel good because we have a good hand and we expect to win. Then when the flop comes AJ4 all spades, and we don't have a spade, this is a dangerous moment. Our emotional attachment to how we felt about our hand preflop has caused us to feel bad about the flop, and feeling bad about the flop will cause us to have a small period of time where we are much more likely to play incorrectly. If instead, when each decision presents itself we remain free from emotional involvement, we will never have periods of time where we are more likely to make -EV decisions, and so it can only be a +EV proposition.
This is only scratching the surface, but I realize that this post is getting quite long. |
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Posted: Sun, 23 Mar 2008, 1:57pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| pokerfan wrote: | spoon,i just lost my KK to a donk's AA with 200BB this weekend but your magic number is huge in my case, ouch. In that situation, the donk minraised 4 limpers in SB, i 3 bet big from big blind and then he min 4 bet vip$ip:73.33% and PFR : 13.33% let me NEVER fold my kk whatsoever.
| spoonitnow wrote: |
Here's a simple rule of thumb to keep in mind that I'm pulling out of my ass: if you add a player's VP$IP to their PFR, and that number is greater than 10, then you probably shouldn't fold KK preflop at just 100bb deep unless you have some read about how they play AA. | |
The bold part is important, obviously.
But yeah I probably stack off there too. |
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Posted: Sun, 23 Mar 2008, 1:58pm Post subject:
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3-of-a-Kind
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 101
WPP: 96
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| Hi spoon. Why do people fold soo often to 3bets , when they open for 4xBB then i 3bets and they fold. Please respond. |
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Posted: Sun, 23 Mar 2008, 2:01pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 3549
WPP: 101
Location: The Grind
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| fat-b wrote: | | Hi spoon. Why do people fold soo often to 3bets , when they open for 4xBB then i 3bets and they fold. Please respond. |
The 3-betting game in full ring has not made it to as high of a level as 6-max in general. That's one of the things that makes full ring easier, but has a down side of not preparing people who exclusively play full ring for that type of play. |
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Posted: Sun, 23 Mar 2008, 2:08pm Post subject:
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3-of-a-Kind
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 101
WPP: 96
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| Played a hand yesterday. I have 44 i CO? UTG opens for 4xbb, utg+1 calls i join to. Flop comes K94, 2diamonds. They both check to me , and i bet 20 into a 28 pot or something. UTG folds , but UTG+1 makes a raise to 58 i think it was. Now .. In 6max this is a turboshove , but is it really +ev in FR games? Villain was standard 12 10 ish player i thinks. |
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