ARCHIVE: Percent of pre-flop folds

MagicMark
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Percent of pre-flop folds [post #1]

I've seen discussions about how high one's percent of pre-flop folds should be. Some people, who have much more experience than me, state that their pre-flop fold percent is as much as 85%!

While I consider myself a somewhat tight player, I find this to be awfully high. It seems to me that these people are only staying with the best of the best hands.

Heck, I've seen loose-passive games where 80% of the time the big blind could check, and that alone would let them stay in almost 10% of the time even with nothing! And then it seems like they must be giving up the advantages of position to fold somewhat weaker hands when on the button (or near it).

I find it more relevant to look at the sum of my folds before and just after the flop. Also, I like to look at my % of showdowns won.

I use these statistics as a tool to make sure I am not chasing too many 2nd best hands too far.

How do others use these statistics, if at all?

Nov 17, 2003 at 04:27 PM Quote Print

ttanaka
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Re: Percent of pre-flop folds [post #2]

I occasionally check my stats, particularly the percentage of flops seen. I normally run at about 30%. You are correct, I can't imagine regularly playing at 15%, just the blinds would play 20%! To me, that seems too tight, that they would lose money givng up the blinds.

I personally have had ranges between 10% - 50%. I don't give too much weight to the stats, I play the cards that I am dealt, I know which hands to play in what positions, so the stats don't really curb my play.

I do know that players check their stats to keep themselves in check, to make sure they are not playing too loose. Anything to keep a player from playing too loose is a good thing.

Nov 17, 2003 at 08:54 PM Quote Print

meng1

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Re: Percent of pre-flop folds [post #3]

85% does seem rather tight. On an aggressive table where there is a lot of pre-flop raising, I find my percentage of flops seen lower than usual closer to 20 - 25%. However, without much pre-flop raising it may be advantagous to see more flops, especially in later position. Overall, I usually find my percent of flops seen around 30%, but I have seen it as high 50% depending on how the cards are dealt.

I also like to look at the number hands dealt as well as the number of hands won. On a 10 player table, I like to know if I'm winning my fair share of hands. If I'm at or over 10% percent hands won, that's usually a good sign.

Nov 17, 2003 at 09:34 PM Quote Print

MagicMark
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Re: Percent of pre-flop folds [post #4]

quote:
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meng1 wrote:
On a 10 player table, I like to know if I'm winning my fair share of hands. If I'm at or over 10% percent hands won, that's usually a good sign.
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But isn't the % of hands won more a sign of luck for a particular session? I mean, if I've won only 5%, for example, does this mean I'm playing badly or just getting bad cards? Conversely, does winning 15% mean I'm good? (my interpretation has been: 5% means I'm unlucky, 15% means I'm good! )

-- MagicMark
Nov 18, 2003 at 02:08 AM Quote Print

meng1

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Re: Percent of pre-flop folds [post #5]

I agree, if my percent of hands won is low, it usually means my cards have been poor or have not been holding up. But I like reference this percent so I can guage how I'm doing at the table whether it be the luck of the cards or how well I'm playing. In situations when my winning percentage is low, I ask myself if I am running into bad beats or should I be making adjustments? So I make my adjustments and move from there.

I also like to correlate my percent of hands won with the percent of flops seen. If I have a high percent of flops seen, I expect to see a higher percent of hands won which means my chip stack better be up.

Nov 18, 2003 at 07:49 PM Quote Print

Fnord
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Re: Percent of pre-flop folds [post #6]

% pre-flop folds is totally driven by the cost of seeing the flop (usually driven by the amount of the big blind) vs the likely size of the pot afterwards. On a no limit table with really cheap blinds, if you can get in cheap (and walk away if raised) call on just about anything hoping for trips or two pair on the flop. Perhaps even play a bluff if the opponent is vulnerable to it.

Dec 03, 2003 at 02:57 AM Print

Eric

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Re: Percent of pre-flop folds [post #7]

I agree that you can play slightly looser than normal on a no limit table with small blinds if certain conditions are met. The first would be that there are very few pre-flop raises meaning you can virtually always count on seeing the flop for cheap(just calling the blind). The second condition would be that you are being penalized for not playing(ie high antes in comparison to the blinds). The third condition would be that the payout is made when you do hit your hand. In other words when you flop a good hand like 3 of a kind and raise that people stay in with second-best hands and pay you off.

That being said I think it is dangerous to play too loose. On limit tables I go by Sklansky's logic on his 8 groups of hands and follow it the best I can. Typically this is tighter than other players at the table.

This may sound like an odd way of looking at things but when I judge success by my share of wins, I actually am pleased when I see that I'm winning far less than my share and have at least as many chips as I started with. The logic behind this is that if I'm winning only 1 of 15 hands and am not losing money then I know that I've been playing the right hands and getting away from losers before I lose too much on them.
After all, Players that play each hand and chase to the river will always win more than their share. The difference is that they spend far too much to win those hands. This will not work against competent players.

Does this make sense or am I nuts?

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ARCHIVE: Percent of pre-flop folds