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Posted: Wed, 04 Nov 2009, 12:07am Post subject: 50nl - nut flush draw vs unknown oop
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 2229
WPP: 81
Location: sigh..nit ring
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Best line to take here?
c/f
c/c
b/f
b/c
?
I kinda wanna b/f since calling a turn raise oop here and having to hit would be meh..? espec given limited info im not sure we can count on getting paid off in that case. is a turn barrel really folding much that peeled the flop with though? perhpaps checking is more appropriate if that's the case...thoughts?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
BB ($53.35)
Hero (UTG) ($64.40)
UTG+1 ($55.05)
MP1 ($50)
MP2 ($51.10)
CO ($52)
Button ($50)
SB ($135.10)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q , A
Hero bets $1.50, UTG+1 calls $1.50, 1 fold, MP2 calls $1.50, 4 folds
Flop: ($5.25) 5, 3 , 7 (3 players)
Hero bets $3.50, 1 fold, MP2 calls $3.50
Turn: ($12.25) 9 (2 players) |
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Posted: Wed, 04 Nov 2009, 12:12am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 2127
WPP: 48
Location: Gainesville
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| bet that turn and think about triple barreling |
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Posted: Wed, 04 Nov 2009, 12:22am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 2229
WPP: 81
Location: sigh..nit ring
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| Deanglow wrote: | | bet that turn and think about triple barreling |
would you triple almost any blank?
or how about,
any heart, king or jack as a bluff (queen/ace for value),
which is like 20 some cards..., c/fold on total blanks I suppose since we probably get stationed by 88 when the draw misses as most people are in fact stations with pocket pairs on boards like this. |
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Posted: Wed, 04 Nov 2009, 12:01pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 358
WPP: 68
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I hate c/c,b/f is preferable.The 9s is not preferable card to barrel but i think we should build the pot if a heart comes on the river.
I would like to hear about river blank options thou |
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Posted: Wed, 04 Nov 2009, 2:28pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 510
WPP: 320
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| Timing tells would be useful in this spot. Also some info on MP2 would be great. Can he even hand read? |
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Posted: Wed, 04 Nov 2009, 2:34pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 2127
WPP: 48
Location: Gainesville
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| The 9 is not a great card to barrel but we are UTG and can credibly rep a big hand. If this were COvBU I would probably still bet but probably won't barrel the river |
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Posted: Wed, 04 Nov 2009, 2:47pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 510
WPP: 320
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If we're betting the turn I think we have to plan to shove a LOT of rivers. MP2 can easily have like 44, 54, 65, 66, 87, 88, even like 98ss, and a lot of players on this turn are going to convince themselves that you could still have AK or AQ and they have outs if not.
Can MP2 fold? Can he re-evaluate his hand given the action so far? If so, betting like 12 here and jamming a non 4-8 river could be good, UNLESS MP2 is the type to slowplay the flop AND turn on drawy boards. If Villain is slowplaying the flop only, he will raise our 12 (with a set or straight) and we can fold (unless he minraises, then we have sick odds to call and jam when a heart comes that doesn't pair the board).
If MP2 can't put us on an overpair, I much prefer betting like $6.50 to price in our good equity (and there is some value! think A2, A4, A6, esp with the spades, and KJ, KT, JT ss or hh) and then value betting any river that we hit. We can consider a 2/3 pot river bluff if the K comes. |
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Posted: Wed, 04 Nov 2009, 5:15pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 2229
WPP: 81
Location: sigh..nit ring
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| Deanglow wrote: | | The 9 is not a great card to barrel but we are UTG and can credibly rep a big hand. If this were COvBU I would probably still bet but probably won't barrel the river |
This is essentially what lead me to posting the hand. I figured I didn't really have much fold equity on the turn although I wasn't writing out the plan in my head on which cards to barrel on the river - which is likely a big mistake, though I'm sure I would have just came to the decision at the time when faced with it (perhaps this is a good indicator that I need to play less tables)
In the hand I took the b/f line because once I got raised on the turn I realized my outs are now tainted and I probably wouldn't get paid anyway.
And yeah, I suppose the river (well basically all streets) comes down to what MP2's tendencies are, unfortunately in the hand I had no information since he just came to the table and he hadn't done anything noteworthy yet, though I think without reads I'd still fire on a K, heart, ace or queen at least so it's not like I'll be giving up on the river a ton when I fire the turn. |
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Posted: Thu, 05 Nov 2009, 12:10am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 822
WPP: 73
Location: wisconsin
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| I'd probably bet 1/2 pot on turn, re-eval river card. Hopefully he's on a lesser heart draw and you both hit. |
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Posted: Fri, 06 Nov 2009, 11:10pm Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 2229
WPP: 81
Location: sigh..nit ring
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| What you guys think of c/r'ing the turn? |
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Posted: Sat, 07 Nov 2009, 12:19am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 510
WPP: 320
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| What value hand would you do that with? It just pretty much looks like exactly the hand you have. And it gives someone who slowplayed a set or turned a straight very easy value. Most of the hands in his range (did you read my post above?) that would even consider folding are just going to check behind the turn. |
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