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Posted: Sat, 25 Jun 2005, 5:09am Post subject: 5/10 ROFL
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i wouldn't mind a change...
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 4832
WPP: 96
Location: TagFish
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Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is MP with T , T .
1 fold, Hero raises, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.
Flop: (6.40 SB) 7, 9, T (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button folds, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, Hero calls.
Turn: (7.20 BB) 9 (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.
River: (15.20 BB) J (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.
Final Pot: 23.20 BB
Results in white below:
BB has 4d 9h (three of a kind, nines).
Hero has Ts Td (full house, tens full of nines).
Outcome: Hero wins 23.20 BB.
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, J.
Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls.
Flop: (4.40 SB) K, 3, 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.
Turn: (3.20 BB) 6 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.
River: (5.20 BB) 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.
Final Pot: 9.20 BB
Results in white below:
BB has 2s 7h (three of a kind, sevens).
Hero has Kd Jc (two pair, kings and sevens).
Outcome: BB wins 9.20 BB.
...More tomorrow. |
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Posted: Sat, 25 Jun 2005, 6:45am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Posts: 481
WPP: 104
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| Amusing. Do people think that because they've already put $5 in the pot that their hands are already pretty good? |
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Posted: Sat, 25 Jun 2005, 7:10am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 947
WPP: 117
Location: Vancouver
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| I had a guy call me down with a flopped fullhouse today at 5/10 haha. |
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Posted: Mon, 27 Jun 2005, 8:54pm Post subject:
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i wouldn't mind a change...
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 4832
WPP: 96
Location: TagFish
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Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is MP with K, A.
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, 2 folds.
Flop: (5.40 SB) 5, 4, 3 (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.
Turn: (3.70 BB) 9 [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
Hero bets, Button calls.
River: (5.70 BB) Q (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.
Final Pot: 7.70 BB
Results in white below:
Hero has Kc Ad (high card, ace).
Button has 4h 7d (one pair, fours).
Outcome: Button wins 7.70 BB. |
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Posted: Mon, 27 Jun 2005, 10:30pm Post subject:
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Season I
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 2360
WPP: 74
Location: Dallas, TX
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| i think i know that guy... |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Jun 2005, 12:39am Post subject:
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i wouldn't mind a change...
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 4832
WPP: 96
Location: TagFish
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Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, T.
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls, BB calls.
Flop: (9.40 SB) J, K, A [color:#0000FF](3 players)[/color]
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, BB calls.
Turn: (6.20 BB) 4 (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls.
River: (10.20 BB) 5 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.
Final Pot: 12.20 BB
Results in white below:
UTG has 7h Ac (one pair, aces).
Hero has Qs Tc (straight, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 12.20 BB. |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Jun 2005, 1:11am Post subject:
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i wouldn't mind a change...
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 4832
WPP: 96
Location: TagFish
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Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is BB with 5, Q.
4 folds, SB raises, Hero calls.
Flop: (4 SB) 4, 7, A (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.
Turn: (3 BB) 2 (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.
River: (5 BB) A (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.
Final Pot: 9 BB
Results in white below:
SB has Ts Td (two pair, aces and tens).
Hero has 5d Qd (flush, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 9 BB.
...oops |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Jun 2005, 1:21am Post subject:
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i wouldn't mind a change...
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 4832
WPP: 96
Location: TagFish
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Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is Button with K, A.
1 fold, MP raises, Hero 3-bets, SB caps, 1 fold, MP calls, Hero calls.
Flop: (13 SB) Q, A, 6 (3 players)
SB checks, MP bets, Hero raises, SB calls, MP calls.
Turn: (9.50 BB) 9 (3 players)
SB checks, MP checks, Hero bets, SB calls, MP folds.
River: (11.50 BB) 2 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.
Final Pot: 13.50 BB
Results in white below:
Hero has Kc As (one pair, aces).
SB has 9d Kh (one pair, nines).
Outcome: Hero wins 13.50 BB.
And, a really bad Cold Call (But worked out good)
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is Button with J, K.
1 fold, MP raises, CO calls, Hero calls, BB calls.
Flop: (8.40 SB) 5, A, T (5 players)
BB bets, MP raises, CO folds, Hero calls, BB calls.
Turn: (7.20 BB) Q (4 players)
BB checks, MP bets, Hero raises, BB folds, MP calls.
River: (11.20 BB) 6 (3 players)
MP checks, Hero bets, MP calls.
Final Pot: 13.20 BB
Results in white below:
SB has Qs 7d (one pair, queens).
MP has Tc Th (three of a kind, tens).
Hero has Jd Kc (straight, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 13.20 BB.
I couldn't have played that hand any worse and still won. But, in my defense, MP has a 25 % PFR with a 35 VPIP and the CO is the table calling station. Either way, both the preflop and flop plays were bad, but still fun. |
Last edited by elipsesjeff on Tue, 28 Jun 2005, 1:26am; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Tue, 28 Jun 2005, 1:26am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 392
WPP: 63
Location: Midwest
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| elipsesjeff wrote: | [url=http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-PartyPoker.php]Party Poker[/url] 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, T.
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls, BB calls.
Flop: (9.40 SB) J, K, A [color:#0000FF](3 players)[/color]
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, BB calls.
Turn: (6.20 BB) 4 (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls.
River: (10.20 BB) 5 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.
Final Pot: 12.20 BB
Results in white below:
UTG has 7h Ac (one pair, aces).
Hero has Qs Tc (straight, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 12.20 BB. |
I dont see anything horrible about your opp's play. They only thing I see is he may find a fold on the turn raise because of your PFR...nice hand |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Jun 2005, 1:27am Post subject:
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i wouldn't mind a change...
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 4832
WPP: 96
Location: TagFish
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| poskid_1982 wrote: | | elipsesjeff wrote: | [url=http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-PartyPoker.php]Party Poker[/url] 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, T.
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls, BB calls.
Flop: (9.40 SB) J, K, A [color:#0000FF](3 players)[/color]
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, BB calls.
Turn: (6.20 BB) 4 (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls.
River: (10.20 BB) 5 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.
Final Pot: 12.20 BB
Results in white below:
UTG has 7h Ac (one pair, aces).
Hero has Qs Tc (straight, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 12.20 BB. |
I dont see anything horrible about your opp's play. They only thing I see is he may find a fold on the turn raise because of your PFR...nice hand | ROFLed the limp-reraise with A7o. |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Jun 2005, 1:28am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 392
WPP: 63
Location: Midwest
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| Sorry I missed the limp...definately poor |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Jun 2005, 1:31am Post subject:
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i wouldn't mind a change...
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 4832
WPP: 96
Location: TagFish
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| poskid_1982 wrote: | | Sorry I missed the limp...definately poor |
Its the raise that has me laughing. |
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Posted: Tue, 28 Jun 2005, 1:34am Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 392
WPP: 63
Location: Midwest
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| elipsesjeff wrote: | | poskid_1982 wrote: | | Sorry I missed the limp...definately poor |
Its the raise that has me laughing. |
I realize that...I meant I missed the utg limp/raise...forgot to put raise there. |
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Posted: Wed, 29 Jun 2005, 1:29pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1277
WPP: 105
Location: Drowning in prosperity
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| elipsesjeff wrote: | | ROFLed the limp-reraise with A7o. |
I see this fairly often from LAgg's with vulnerable hands like any A and small PP when it gets heads up preflop. |
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Posted: Wed, 29 Jun 2005, 1:34pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1277
WPP: 105
Location: Drowning in prosperity
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| elipsesjeff wrote: | [url=http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-PartyPoker.php]Party Poker[/url] 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is BB with 5, Q.
4 folds, SB raises, Hero calls.
Flop: (4 SB) 4, 7, A (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.
Turn: (3 BB) 2 (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.
River: (5 BB) A (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.
Final Pot: 9 BB
Results in white below:
SB has Ts Td (two pair, aces and tens).
Hero has 5d Qd (flush, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 9 BB.
...oops |
This would be a good time to raise the turn if SB has a fairly wide stealing range and isn't remarkably passive. I'd love to take the pot down on the turn. |
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Posted: Wed, 29 Jun 2005, 1:47pm Post subject:
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Flush
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 396
WPP: 68
Location: Texas
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| elipsesjeff wrote: | [url=http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-PartyPoker.php]Party Poker[/url] 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is BB with 5, Q.
4 folds, SB raises, Hero calls.
Flop: (4 SB) 4, 7, A (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.
Turn: (3 BB) 2 (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.
River: (5 BB) A (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.
Final Pot: 9 BB
Results in white below:
SB has Ts Td (two pair, aces and tens).
Hero has 5d Qd (flush, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 9 BB.
...oops |
The flop call looks a bit too thin to me. How many outs do you think you have? |
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Posted: Wed, 29 Jun 2005, 4:42pm Post subject:
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Strike 3
Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 207
WPP: 197
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I think I'll move up with my ENTIRE bankroll  |
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Posted: Wed, 29 Jun 2005, 6:15pm Post subject:
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i wouldn't mind a change...
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 4832
WPP: 96
Location: TagFish
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| Phyl wrote: |
The flop call looks a bit too thin to me. How many outs do you think you have? |
Yeah,pretty thin, at most 6 with two backdoors and 3 Queens. |
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Posted: Wed, 29 Jun 2005, 7:52pm Post subject:
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i wouldn't mind a change...
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 4832
WPP: 96
Location: TagFish
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| koolmoe wrote: |
This would be a good time to raise the turn if SB has a fairly wide stealing range and isn't remarkably passive. I'd love to take the pot down on the turn. |
...I see, such as:
Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is BB with K, J.
UTG calls, 3 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.
Flop: (7 SB) T, 5, Q (7 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG folds, MP2 folds, MP3 raises, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls.
Turn: (5.50 BB) T (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP3 folds.
Final Pot: 8.50 BB
I'm actually surprised to see a fold. |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 8:53am Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 197
WPP: 78
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| elipsesjeff wrote: | Turn: (5.50 BB) T (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP3 folds. |
Not sure if I like the turn c/r here based on his flop raise. On this board, what is he raising the flop w/? It looks like you probably got A high or a small PP to fold here, however, I don't know if this play is going to get our opponent to fold often enough to do it frequently. Also, if your oppenent 3bets, what's your play? |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 9:36am Post subject:
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 1968
WPP: 96
Location: 6max limit tables
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| Estrop wrote: | | I think I'll move up with my ENTIRE bankroll |
Variance of this game could EASYILY snap your roll off then what happens?
as jeff will tell you $1k swing wouldn't be too uncomin... |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 9:50am Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1277
WPP: 105
Location: Drowning in prosperity
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| Room wrote: | | Not sure if I like the turn c/r here based on his flop raise. On this board, what is he raising the flop w/? It looks like you probably got A high or a small PP to fold here, however, I don't know if this play is going to get our opponent to fold often enough to do it frequently. Also, if your oppenent 3bets, what's your play? |
I'd count at least 15 outs, so his chances of drawing out coupled with folding equity make it a good play. If you consider only the bluff component of this semi-bluff, he's risking about 2/3 of a bet to win 6.5, so he needs a fold only about 9% of the time to make it +EV.
If your opponent three-bets, call and suck out. |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 1:47pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 197
WPP: 78
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| koolmoe wrote: | | If your opponent three-bets, call and suck out. |
I'm not a fan of putting in the most bets when I'm behind. When he 3bets, I'm thinking my c/r bluff was a bad idea. |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 2:27pm Post subject:
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i wouldn't mind a change...
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 4832
WPP: 96
Location: TagFish
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| Room wrote: | | koolmoe wrote: | | If your opponent three-bets, call and suck out. |
I'm not a fan of putting in the most bets when I'm behind. When he 3bets, I'm thinking my c/r bluff was a bad idea. |
Its not a bluff. Its a semi-bluff and I very well could have the best hand. If he three bets here then he's got a ten but a check/raise turn symbolizes strength. He most likely has a Q or less, so my King is also good here. Since this was both an open ended straight and a flush draw, this play should work. |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 3:18pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 197
WPP: 78
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| elipsesjeff wrote: | | Its not a bluff. Its a semi-bluff and I very well could have the best hand. If he three bets here then he's got a ten but a check/raise turn symbolizes strength. He most likely has a Q or less, so my King is also good here. Since this was both an open ended straight and a flush draw, this play should work. |
If he calls your c/r, do you bet your K high river? Do you bet a J? Do you bet a K? Our c/r makes for an uncomfortable river situation.
I also wouldn't underestimate a Q 3-betting here - which is a hand we would certainly like to see a river card against. |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 4:00pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1277
WPP: 105
Location: Drowning in prosperity
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| Room wrote: | | I'm not a fan of putting in the most bets when I'm behind. When he 3bets, I'm thinking my c/r bluff was a bad idea. |
Is calling a bet in a 12 bet pot with only a gutshot draw a bad idea?
Just because something doesn't work the majority of the time doesn't mean it's a bad play.
Look at it this way: you're not folding the turn, so you're putting in one bet here no matter what. What's bad about investing a little bit more in hopes of inducing a fold, especially when you'll get that bet back 1/3 of the time after you make your draw?
In my experience, you're much more likely to get a fold with a check/raise than by leading the turn. |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 6:44pm Post subject:
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i wouldn't mind a change...
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 4832
WPP: 96
Location: TagFish
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| Room wrote: |
If he calls your c/r, do you bet your K high river? Do you bet a J? Do you bet a K? |
Yes, and, Yes. Although I'm seeing both showdowns here, but just check/calling will never induce a fold. |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 7:16pm Post subject:
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Straight
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 197
WPP: 78
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| koolmoe wrote: | | Is calling a bet in a 12 bet pot with only a gutshot draw a bad idea? |
Not at all. But your statement fails to acknowledge that you've already put in 2 bets (by c/ring) with, very likely, the 2nd best hand. Not to mention, we are heads up. If our opponent calls, we are getting 1-1 on our money. As opposed to a 3 way pot where we can get 2-1 from callers.
| koolmoe wrote: | | Just because something doesn't work the majority of the time doesn't mean it's a bad play. |
Can you explain this? If c/r only works here less than 50% of the time, how is that "not a bad play"?
| koolmoe wrote: | Look at it this way: you're not folding the turn, so you're putting in one bet here no matter what. What's bad about investing a little bit more in hopes of inducing a fold, especially when you'll get that bet back 1/3 of the time after you make your draw?
In my experience, you're much more likely to get a fold with a check/raise than by leading the turn. |
Based on your first sentence, your opponent shouldn't be folding any reasonable hand either since the pot will lay him proper odds. |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 8:05pm Post subject:
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 18762
WPP: 81
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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| Room wrote: |
Can you explain this? If c/r only works here less than 50% of the time, how is that "not a bad play"?
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A c/r costs you 2 big bets to win a pot considerably larger than that. Hence, you can fail more than 50% and be profitable. Then, throw in the chance of out-drawing them on the river or even having the best hand... |
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Posted: Thu, 30 Jun 2005, 8:10pm Post subject:
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Full House
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1277
WPP: 105
Location: Drowning in prosperity
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| Room wrote: | | koolmoe wrote: | | Is calling a bet in a 12 bet pot with only a gutshot draw a bad idea? |
Not at all. But your statement fails to acknowledge that you've already put in 2 bets (by c/ring) with, very likely, the 2nd best hand. |
The fact that it's two bets only changes the pot odds calculation, which I have fully considered in my analysis. The fact that my hand is likely second best is precisely what makes this a semibluff. I'm not putting in two bets with the idea that I'm ahead, though it is remotely possible.
| Room wrote: | | Not to mention, we are heads up. If our opponent calls, we are getting 1-1 on our money. As opposed to a 3 way pot where we can get 2-1 from callers. |
Tell me this: what am I getting on my money if my opponent folds? I'm not looking for a call, so what I am getting on my money if I am called is irrelevant, except insomuch as it reduces the cost of my semibluff.
Bottom line, there are lots of hands I want folding here, and many of them will if I check/raise. If he calls or three-bets, I still have outs to win the pot.
| Room wrote: | | koolmoe wrote: | | Just because something doesn't work the majority of the time doesn't mean it's a bad play. |
Can you explain this? If c/r only works here less than 50% of the time, how is that "not a bad play"?
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This question makes me wonder if you understand the concept of bluffing at all. Even a stone cold check-raise bluff only has to work less than 25% of the time to be successful (i.e., +EV).
I have already mentioned that the bluff component of the check raise is equivalent to about 2/3 of a bet, and you stand to win 6.5 bets if it works. As a result, you only need a fold about 9% of the time. It doesn't have to work very often to be profitable.
| Room wrote: | | koolmoe wrote: | Look at it this way: you're not folding the turn, so you're putting in one bet here no matter what. What's bad about investing a little bit more in hopes of inducing a fold, especially when you'll get that bet back 1/3 of the time after you make your draw?
In my experience, you're much more likely to get a fold with a check/raise than by leading the turn. |
Based on your first sentence, your opponent shouldn't be folding any reasonable hand either since the pot will lay him proper odds. |
That's just wrong. Your check/raise tells him that he has to call two more bets to win the pot since he'll expect a river bet. That's two bets to win 8.5 bets, so a lot of mediocre hands will have incentive to fold. Ace high, KJ, JJ, or pocket pairs 66-99 will have a hard time calling the check/raise. Heck, KQ, QJ, might even fold based on the T, which would be huge. You have to consider the fact that your opponent will give you credit for a stronger hand if you check raise. |
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