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Poker Forum
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Posted: Fri, 30 Sep 2005, 8:46am Post subject: 1 hand and my comments |
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i rarely, if ever, get pms
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 3843
WPP: 192
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I still can't get the converter to work for me on HHs from Dise's 50k guaranteed. But here's the hand:
Game #999984666 - Tournament $50,000 R&A - 400/800 No Limit Texas Hold'em -
2005/09/29-21:34:53.5 (CST)
Table "$50,000 R&A 39" (MTT) -- Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: tcoll17 (20,159 in chips)
Seat 2: luckyman7s (23,040 in chips)
Seat 3: K1 Attack (31,325 in chips)
Seat 4: hottie4u (19,949 in chips)
Seat 5: chardrian (28,869 in chips)
Seat 6: phat_cat (18,105 in chips)
Seat 7: $$2005$$ (11,090 in chips)
Seat 8: sophos (7,130 in chips)
Seat 9: mongo11 (37,072 in chips)
Seat 10: mrangell (29,596 in chips)
luckyman7s: Ante (50)
K1 Attack: Ante (50)
hottie4u: Ante (50)
chardrian: Ante (50)
phat_cat: Ante (50)
$$2005$$: Ante (50)
sophos : Ante (50)
mongo11 : Ante (50)
mrangell: Ante (50)
tcoll17 : Ante (50)
luckyman7s: Post Small Blind (400)
K1 Attack: Post Big Blind (800)
Dealing...
Dealt to chardrian [ Ac ]
Dealt to chardrian [ Jh ]
hottie4u: Fold
chardrian: Raise (2,000) - I had recently been moved to this table, had raised the same amount with AA and won. That was the only hand I had been in so far. I think we still weren't at the 2.5xBB raise preflop time - but not a huge mistake.
phat_cat: Fold
$$2005$$: Fold
sophos : Fold
mongo11 : Call (2,000)
mrangell: Fold
tcoll17 : Fold
luckyman7s: Fold
K1 Attack: Call (1,200)
Pot is now 6900
*** FLOP *** : [ 2s 3c 5d ]
K1 Attack: Check
chardrian: Bet (3,800) - I had not been making many continuation bets all night, but I was new to this table so they didn't know that. Anyways - figured I'd represent the high pair and have outs even if it was called.
mongo11 : Raise (8,000) - yikes! This guy was aggressive though. He had just gone over the top on the super aggreesive guy at our table earlier and took down a pot. Going through the checklist in my head - A4 or 46 or 2 pair? I don't think so. A set? Again - wouldn't he just smooth call there and take me down or is he that concerned that I'm on a draw? So I put him most likely on an over pair. It's 4,200 into a 18,700 pot...
I'm fine with a fold here. I'd be down to 23k but that's still more than enough to do some damage. But is a call a bad play? I don't see how it can be. Most likely I have 10 outs - I have to call with odds like that. Worst case scenario (I really don't think he has 46) - is 4 outs. Pot odds at this point are almost ok even there (assuming he doesn't bet the turn). So I
K1 Attack: Fold
chardrian: Call (4,200)
*** TURN *** : [ 2s 3c 5d ] [ Js ]
chardrian: Check
mongo11 : Bet (6,000) - I hit one of my 10 outs - he bet less than he did on the flop, which is either scary or great. I don't see how I can fold now after I called the flop raise since I hit.
chardrian: Raise (18,819)
mongo11 : Call (12,819) - uh oh.
chardrian said, "vn"
*** RIVER *** : [ 2s 3c 5d Js ] [ Kc ]
chardrian said, "4"
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: 60,538 | Board: [ 2s 3c 5d Js Kc ]
tcoll17 lost 50 (folded)
luckyman7s lost 450 (folded)
K1 Attack lost 2,050 (folded)
hottie4u lost 50 (folded)
chardrian lost 28,869 (showed hand) [ Ac Jh ] (a pair of jacks)
phat_cat lost 50 (folded)
$$2005$$ lost 50 (folded)
sophos lost 50 (folded)
mongo11 bet 28,869, collected 60,538, net +31,669 (showed hand) [ 5h 5s ]
(three of a kind, fives)
mrangell lost 50 (folded)
Curious to see what you all think of my play/thoughts on this hand. Was my thinking flawed at any point? In any case - I think it was very well played by mongo. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Sep 2005, 12:17pm Post subject: |
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Straight
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 141
WPP: 393
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| I dont like the call of the reraise, to me he is defiantly holding a higher pocket pair or he hit his set. You should have laid it down when you found out where he stood, IMO. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Sep 2005, 12:40pm Post subject: |
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EAT BUGS
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 7754
WPP: 50
Location: trying to live
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| i dont bet the flop. no way i call a raise if i did bet the flop. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Sep 2005, 12:46pm Post subject: |
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i rarely, if ever, get pms
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 3843
WPP: 192
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| CoxhEd wrote: | | I dont like the call of the reraise, to me he is defiantly holding a higher pocket pair or he hit his set. You should have laid it down when you found out where he stood, IMO. |
In hindsight - of course I don't also. But I'm really trying to focus on my decision making here - not the outcome. He definitely is being defiant that's for sure, but.... let's assume he is not bluffing. And assume he definitely has a PP. There's a 4/13 chance that he hit his set or has AA giving me only 4 outs; if he has 44 I only have 8 outs; 66 - I only have 6 outs; 77-TT - I have 10 outs; JJ-KK - I have 7 outs.
4,200 into an 18,700 pot means I need to have an 18% shot for this to be even money (4200/22900). I do think I need to lean much more on the fact that I need to hit by the turn not the river, cuz he'll probably bet out again on the turn. Because of implied odds and what not I say that means I need at least 8 outs to make this call. So if I knew he had the set of course I woulda folded. But I didn't and I don't think I coulda known that.
4/13 I have 4 outs; 4/13 I have 10 outs; 1/13 I have 8 outs; 1/13 I have 6 outs; 3/13 I have 7 outs. Add em all together and I average only 7 outs. So yeah, considering that I really needed closer to 10 true outs to make this play profitable, and I only had that less than 1/3 of the time a fold was probably the best move. Too bad - I didn't have 5 minutes to think it out like I just did. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Sep 2005, 1:01pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 2911
WPP: 107
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I think your play was logical, but as you calculated, your flop call was very thin, maybe even -EV.
The critical thought was that a set "would have flat called you" - so you discounted the possibility that your overcard outs weren't good. He played it a little strong... but he can easily put you on an A, which gives you the gutshot. May as well make you pay for it.
What leans me towards folding when your CB is re-raised is the fact that you are covered, and I am not sure I'm willing to play long ball for all my chips here. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Sep 2005, 1:14pm Post subject: |
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i rarely, if ever, get pms
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 3843
WPP: 192
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| zenbitz wrote: | I think your play was logical, but as you calculated, your flop call was very thin, maybe even -EV.
The critical thought was that a set "would have flat called you" - so you discounted the possibility that your overcard outs weren't good. He played it a little strong... but he can easily put you on an A, which gives you the gutshot. May as well make you pay for it.
What leans me towards folding when your CB is re-raised is the fact that you are covered, and I am not sure I'm willing to play long ball for all my chips here. |
I agree - still need to pull back my aggression at times. and pick my spots better. Tonight is another night tho.  |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Sep 2005, 1:14pm Post subject: |
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EAT BUGS
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 7754
WPP: 50
Location: trying to live
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| in NL, it's probably a bad idea to call a raise with just overcards unless you are setting up a bluff on a later street. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Sep 2005, 1:18pm Post subject: Re: 1 hand and my comments |
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3-of-a-Kind
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 83
WPP: 195
Location: SNG Tables
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| chardrian wrote: | | chardrian: Bet (3,800) - I had not been making many continuation bets all night, but I was new to this table so they didn't know that. Anyways - figured I'd represent the high pair and have outs even if it was called. | I don't necessarily think this is a bad move, however, most of the time the table will put you on two high cards and you will often run into a re-raise or a flat call on some low pair, leaving you to fold or try to draw out.
I check when its to me, and wait until later in the game to throw in a continuation bet, when they understand my play. I think your fold equity is much lower when your new at a table and you try this move. Wait a little longer at the table, and I think they fold to a continuation bet when you haven't been doing it and they think your playing only off value. Not a bad move betting, but I fold to any re-raise. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Sep 2005, 2:25pm Post subject: |
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Full House
Joined: 12 Dec 2004
Posts: 1296
WPP: 54
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| the flop bet is a toss up, but it's a clear fold facing a raise. |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Sep 2005, 3:39pm Post subject: |
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LAME HUMOR THAT MAKES FISH LAUGH
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 7243
WPP: 63
Location: This room is a good place to be
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You're counting your outs wrong. I'd assume I have like 5 outs total consider how often even a turned pair or straight will lose or split. Easy flop fold.
-'rilla |
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Posted: Fri, 30 Sep 2005, 5:14pm Post subject: |
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Straight Flush
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 5882
WPP: 65
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| slow playing a set on that board is bad play. I need a reason to assume someone is bad in a 30 RB tourney. |
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