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Posted: Sat, 28 Jun 2008, 11:31am Post subject: 5-10 very deep, trips no kicker |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2628
WPP: 115
Location: at your tables, calling your bets
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Hero ($3894)
Button ($957)
SB ($175)
BB ($959)
UTG ($940)
MP ($4626.80)
Preflop: Hero is CO with T , 9.
1 fold, MP raises to $20, Hero calls $20, Button calls $20, 2 folds.
Flop: ($75) T , K, T (3 players)
Final Pot: $75
MP bets $40, Hero calls or raises to how much?
I'm taking a shot because MP is a whale. He's raising really wide here; I've seen him show up with stuff like J3s. He's also a huge station who never folds a pair after the flop, but he also sometimes makes random aggressive moves too. For example he 4-bet 44 earlier and flopped a set against the Button in this hand.
I think if I raise here he might call or even 3-bet with a king, but obv I'm usually beat if a ton of money goes into the pot and I don't want to stack off this deep, so should I just call? |
Last edited by mcatdog on Sun, 29 Jun 2008, 9:00am; edited 2 times in total
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Posted: Sat, 28 Jun 2008, 1:01pm Post subject: |
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 556
WPP: 109
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How do you know he's a whale? 4-betting 44 preflop and opening a wide range are certainly no proof.
If you don't want to play for stacks with this hand (which is probably correct), then just let him keep betting until he stops, which is when you can fire. If he decides to c/r, then just call him down. Good board and hand to play fairly passively this deep IP. Just don't let any street go check-check. |
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Posted: Sat, 28 Jun 2008, 5:49pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2628
WPP: 115
Location: at your tables, calling your bets
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| He's a whale because he was a huge station who never folded a pair postflop. He recently lost half a stack limp-calling with J5s and donking the J8x flop for 1/2 pot, bet-calling the 8 turn and calling a river bet. Another time he lost $300 betting 1/2 pot on every street with bottom pair. I didn't know what to do because he would never fold a king to just a flop raise but he might 3-bet me with one. I'm not used to playing this deep. |
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Posted: Sat, 28 Jun 2008, 11:52pm Post subject: |
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One Pair
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 556
WPP: 109
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| If you aren't comfortable you should probably leave the table, but this hand is easy to play if you don't want to play for stacks. You've got position so you have pretty much full control over the size of the pot, unless he starts overbetting of course. |
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Posted: Sun, 29 Jun 2008, 1:12am Post subject: |
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Straight
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 244
WPP: 269
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| Let him keep betting this deep. Even a fish won't stack off for 400BB with just a king (or will he?). I would call call and then minraise safe rivers. Raising flop is risky if you won't felt it. |
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Posted: Sun, 29 Jun 2008, 7:04am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1586
WPP: 100
Location: Toronto'ish
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Yah I agree with P4's, that calling is fine here and betting any street if he checks to you.
I doubt a whale will stack for 400bb's.
Even better, if he has QJ then one of his outs gives you a boat, so you don't have to worry as much about letting him get there with draws. |
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Posted: Sun, 29 Jun 2008, 9:02am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2628
WPP: 115
Location: at your tables, calling your bets
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OK so I maybe made a mistake and raised to $140 (can't be that bad though) and to my surprise, the Button cold-called and the fish folded, turn 8  . Button wasn't that great of a player; he wasn't a station or anything but he wasn't aggressive enough IMO and missed some really easy value bets. I'm pretty sure I have to check and fold to a bet, but expect it to go check-check a lot, but just making sure? |
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Posted: Sun, 29 Jun 2008, 10:01pm Post subject: |
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Royal Flush
Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 16962
WPP: 83
Location: Raise Pre-flop, Check/Raise Flop
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I'd bet/fold against the button's cold call. I still think you're ok against his range given the dynamic and you're only 100bb deep. If you think his cold call is Tx then check/fold is fine.
The problem I have with check/folding the turn is that the same guys who miss value bets won't check behind on a draw. |
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Posted: Mon, 30 Jun 2008, 9:06am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 1939
WPP: 55
Location: Dizzy
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| im raising flop all day and trying to get all in unless he shows aggression or the board comes dirty or timing tells make me sketched out |
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Posted: Mon, 30 Jun 2008, 9:45am Post subject: |
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Almost as bad as that idiot heybude
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 2573
WPP: 68
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| wow how could you guys not agree about the flop play: RAISE. Just because you may have to fold eventually doesn't necessarily mean that you should play pot control. |
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Posted: Mon, 30 Jun 2008, 10:00am Post subject: |
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midstakes donk
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 1867
WPP: 47
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
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| Massimo wrote: | | wow how could you guys not agree about the flop play: RAISE. Just because you may have to fold eventually doesn't necessarily mean that you should play pot control. |
given reads i agree with this for sure. vs good players i would almost never raise flop in this spot |
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Posted: Mon, 30 Jun 2008, 11:09am Post subject: |
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Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 5909
WPP: 73
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| nutsinho wrote: | | Massimo wrote: | | wow how could you guys not agree about the flop play: RAISE. Just because you may have to fold eventually doesn't necessarily mean that you should play pot control. |
given reads i agree with this for sure. vs good players i would almost never raise flop in this spot |
I can't say I agree that I'd never raise this flop versus a good player. Honestly, I probably would rarely call. It doesn't make much sense range wise. |
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Posted: Mon, 30 Jun 2008, 2:38pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1586
WPP: 100
Location: Toronto'ish
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I was more advocating calling the flop because of OP's description of villain
"He's raising really wide here; I've seen him show up with stuff like J3s. He's also a huge station who never folds a pair after the flop, but he also sometimes makes random aggressive moves too"
If he's showing up with a very wide range here, I'd rather let him keep bluffing at me. Obviously if I knew he had some hand like AA/AK here I'd be raising this up hard, but that seems to be only a small part of his range.
Raising this flop is pretty standard, but if my read was that he was spewy/aggro/bluffy then calling isn't so bad. Actually calling in a spot like this looks a LOT like we have a K, which might induce villain into bluffing us even more trying to rep a T and get us off our hand. |
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Posted: Mon, 30 Jun 2008, 2:45pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 1939
WPP: 55
Location: Dizzy
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| u guys r way too deep lets get all in |
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