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Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 3:20pm Post subject: 2/4 200bb deep vs. laggy reg |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3293 WPP: 85
Location: practicing mindfulness
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Villain is a 2p2'er, good regular that plays as high as 5/10. He runs 29/20/2 over a lot of hands and is an aggro 3bettor and seems to 4bet more than most. My notes say that he 4bet me twice 200bb deep in a previous session, I folded both times and he's already 4bet me once at this table and I've folded. So, I decided to call this time. Is pre-flop terrible? Flop plan?
Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Holdem Ring game - Blinds: $2/$4 - 5 players - Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $1040.30
CO: $807.30
Hero: $800
SB: $499.80
BB: $140
Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with T A
UTG folds, CO raises to $14, Hero raises to $48, 2 folds, CO raises to $158, Hero calls.
Flop: T 2 7 ($322, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero... |
Last edited by zook on Tue, 27 May 2008, 4:17pm; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 3:37pm Post subject: |
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Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6085 WPP: 73
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| As played id check but I don't tend to get out of hand preflop here, but it can't be too bad. |
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Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 4:11pm Post subject: |
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midstakes donk

Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 2190 WPP: 47
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
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thats a huge 4bet...id just fold
and check back flop as played, what happens on the turn? |
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Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 4:17pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3293 WPP: 85
Location: practicing mindfulness
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| nutsinho wrote: | | thats a huge 4bet...id just fold |
converter screwed up, fixed. still a big 4bet though. |
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Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 4:48pm Post subject: |
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Full House

Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 1277 WPP: 72
Location: Montreal
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its actually a pretty standard 4bet size for 200bb deep...
PF is meh, i guess its ok its sooted cant be that bad against that guy. I check flop too. |
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Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 7:08pm Post subject: |
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Straight

Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 229 WPP: 416
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I really dont like the pf call, A10s is just a hand that suffers from big reverse implied odds in a 4 bet pot, this deep i'd much rather be calling with a hand such as 10 9s, as I wouldn't really feel comfortable stacking off with A10 if I had less than top two.
On the flop - I dont mind a check behind as villain is likely drawing to 2 or 3 outs if he is behind and id rather try and see a showdown as cheap as possible in this situation. If you bet the flop and he wants to play then its almost surely going to be that he wants to play for 200BB's and your hand is not faring well against his range if he does. |
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Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 8:35pm Post subject: |
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One Pair

Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 589 WPP: 108
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| Why are you raising this guy pre? I think you should go with polarized 3-bets and just call with hands that have good nut potential and are ahead of his range, like this one. |
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Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 8:51pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3293 WPP: 85
Location: practicing mindfulness
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| pocketfours wrote: | | Why are you raising this guy pre? I think you should go with polarized 3-bets and just call with hands that have good nut potential and are ahead of his range, like this one. |
This is a good point and usually my strategy. I was a bit off my game today
So I bet $200 on the flop and he c/r'ed AI ($442 to call to win $1164)... |
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Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 10:52pm Post subject: |
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Full House

Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 1382 WPP: 116
Location: value towning myself
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| pocketfours wrote: | | Why are you raising this guy pre? I think you should go with polarized 3-bets and just call with hands that have good nut potential and are ahead of his range, like this one. |
i really like this point. i feel like this is a big problem of mine. that is, 3 betting the wrong players with KQs, ATs, etc. |
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Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 12:22am Post subject: |
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midstakes donk

Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 2190 WPP: 47
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
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| yeah i like calling ATs always unless you think you can induce something based on history/game flow. This new 4bet size does seem a lot more standard. I think that floating it is all right sometimes but I'm going to play the hand you flop pretty cautiously (I would shove if he bet but when he checks I think you need to check back). As played I think you should call because if youre not good you still usually have about 26% equity. |
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Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 2:00am Post subject: |
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Royal Flush

Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17618 WPP: 82
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
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| zook wrote: | | ($442 to call to win $1164)... |
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 30.287% 29.93% 00.36% 12299634 146956.50 { AsTs }
Hand 1: 69.713% 69.36% 00.36% 28501749 146956.50 { TT+ }
Given that his range is certainly wider, I think you're pot-stuck. |
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Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 7:04am Post subject: |
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Almost as bad as that idiot heybude

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 2728 WPP: 72
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Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 8:35am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3293 WPP: 85
Location: practicing mindfulness
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| Massimo wrote: | | Is the opp Dr. Giggy? |
No, gopher.
Results: I called he showed Tc6c. He bitched about how bad I played it and challenged me to HU I do think I butchered the hand. |
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Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 10:22am Post subject: |
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Straight

Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 233 WPP: 77
Location: Rotterdam, Holland
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you can't call if he just checked flop  |
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Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 11:03am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 1607 WPP: 47
Location: Gainesville
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| I think the call preflop might be slightly losing, but if you are betting this flop you cannot fold. |
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Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 12:19pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 1951 WPP: 54
Location: Dizzy
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| Deanglow wrote: | | I think the call preflop might be slightly losing, but if you are betting this flop you cannot fold. |
i was gonna say stuff but this is better and more succinct, bet/calling flop is probably ur best option given his line though and the pf action |
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Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 10:33pm Post subject: |
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Full House

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 700 WPP: 79
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Fnord wrote: | | zook wrote: | | ($442 to call to win $1164)... |
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 30.287% 29.93% 00.36% 12299634 146956.50 { AsTs }
Hand 1: 69.713% 69.36% 00.36% 28501749 146956.50 { TT+ }
Given that his range is certainly wider, I think you're pot-stuck. |
This is for pre-flop. You forgot to add the flop.
Board: Td 2s 7c
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 21.804% 21.80% 00.00% 4749 0.00 { AsTs }
Hand 1: 78.196% 78.20% 00.00% 17031 0.00 { TT+ } |
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Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 11:10pm Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 3382 WPP: 85
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| wtf rigged equity calculation didn't include T6cc |
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Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 12:18am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 1607 WPP: 47
Location: Gainesville
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| sauce123 wrote: | | Deanglow wrote: | | I think the call preflop might be slightly losing, but if you are betting this flop you cannot fold. |
i was gonna say stuff but this is better and more succinct, bet/calling flop is probably ur best option given his line though and the pf action |
I also think between checking flop with SD value/for deception/whatever and bet/calling that b/c is better. |
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Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 5:38am Post subject: |
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Full House

Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 1277 WPP: 72
Location: Montreal
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| Genitruc wrote: | | wtf rigged equity calculation didn't include 23o !! | |
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Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 8:25am Post subject: |
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Full House

Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 1158 WPP: 136
Location: Nest of Douchebags
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| zook wrote: | | Massimo wrote: | | Is the opp Dr. Giggy? |
No, gopher.
Results: I called he showed Tc6c. He bitched about how bad I played it and challenged me to HU I do think I butchered the hand. |
Because calling with T6s is a good play? (Serious question, pinch of sarcasm)) |
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Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 8:50am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 2015 WPP: 99
Location: Toronto'ish
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| bigred wrote: | | zook wrote: | | Massimo wrote: | | Is the opp Dr. Giggy? |
No, gopher.
Results: I called he showed Tc6c. He bitched about how bad I played it and challenged me to HU I do think I butchered the hand. |
Because calling with T6s is a good play? (Serious question, pinch of sarcasm)) |
He shoved with T6s, he didn't call with it. So I don't think his play is that bad either. Puts a lot of midpairs and stuff in a crap spot.
Zook - what's the worst pair you're betting here?You bet calling like 88, or A7? |
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Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 9:52am Post subject: |
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4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3293 WPP: 85
Location: practicing mindfulness
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| griffey24 wrote: | | Zook - what's the worst pair you're betting here?You bet calling like 88, or A7? |
I like A7 a lot better than 88. 88 needs a lot of overcard bluffs in his range to be a +EV call, A7 not as many. I probably don't call with either pre, but I shouldn't have called with ATs... |
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Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 11:21am Post subject: |
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Full House

Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 1158 WPP: 136
Location: Nest of Douchebags
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