Poker Forum

Subscribe to FTR Online Poker Community Web Feed

  >    > 

2/4 200bb deep vs. laggy reg

  
Page 1 of 1  ||  Post new topic  |  Post reply

Author Message
zook
Post Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 3:20pm    Post subject: 2/4 200bb deep vs. laggy reg Reply with quote
4-of-a-Kind
4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3293
WPP: 85
Location: practicing mindfulness
Villain is a 2p2'er, good regular that plays as high as 5/10. He runs 29/20/2 over a lot of hands and is an aggro 3bettor and seems to 4bet more than most. My notes say that he 4bet me twice 200bb deep in a previous session, I folded both times and he's already 4bet me once at this table and I've folded. So, I decided to call this time. Is pre-flop terrible? Flop plan?

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Holdem Ring game - Blinds: $2/$4 - 5 players - Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $1040.30
CO: $807.30
Hero: $800
SB: $499.80
BB: $140

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with T Spade A Spade
UTG folds, CO raises to $14, Hero raises to $48, 2 folds, CO raises to $158, Hero calls.

Flop: T Heart 2 Spade 7 Club ($322, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero...


Last edited by zook on Tue, 27 May 2008, 4:17pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
IowaSkinsFan
Post Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 3:37pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape
Almost as bad as that idiot redgrape

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6085
WPP: 73

As played id check but I don't tend to get out of hand preflop here, but it can't be too bad.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message WordPress Blog
nutsinho
Post Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 4:11pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
midstakes donk
midstakes donk

Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 2190
WPP: 47
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
thats a huge 4bet...id just fold
and check back flop as played, what happens on the turn?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zook
Post Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 4:17pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
4-of-a-Kind
4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3293
WPP: 85
Location: practicing mindfulness
nutsinho wrote:
thats a huge 4bet...id just fold

converter screwed up, fixed. still a big 4bet though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alexos
Post Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 4:48pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Full House
Full House

Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 1277
WPP: 72
Location: Montreal
its actually a pretty standard 4bet size for 200bb deep...

PF is meh, i guess its ok its sooted cant be that bad against that guy. I check flop too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
Toadstool
Post Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 7:08pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Straight
Straight

Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 229
WPP: 416

I really dont like the pf call, A10s is just a hand that suffers from big reverse implied odds in a 4 bet pot, this deep i'd much rather be calling with a hand such as 10 9s, as I wouldn't really feel comfortable stacking off with A10 if I had less than top two.

On the flop - I dont mind a check behind as villain is likely drawing to 2 or 3 outs if he is behind and id rather try and see a showdown as cheap as possible in this situation. If you bet the flop and he wants to play then its almost surely going to be that he wants to play for 200BB's and your hand is not faring well against his range if he does.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pocketfours
Post Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 8:35pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
One Pair
One Pair

Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 589
WPP: 108

Why are you raising this guy pre? I think you should go with polarized 3-bets and just call with hands that have good nut potential and are ahead of his range, like this one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zook
Post Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 8:51pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
4-of-a-Kind
4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3293
WPP: 85
Location: practicing mindfulness
pocketfours wrote:
Why are you raising this guy pre? I think you should go with polarized 3-bets and just call with hands that have good nut potential and are ahead of his range, like this one.

This is a good point and usually my strategy. I was a bit off my game today Sad

So I bet $200 on the flop and he c/r'ed AI ($442 to call to win $1164)...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
will641
Post Posted: Tue, 27 May 2008, 10:52pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Full House
Full House

Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 1382
WPP: 116
Location: value towning myself
pocketfours wrote:
Why are you raising this guy pre? I think you should go with polarized 3-bets and just call with hands that have good nut potential and are ahead of his range, like this one.


i really like this point. i feel like this is a big problem of mine. that is, 3 betting the wrong players with KQs, ATs, etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nutsinho
Post Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 12:22am    Post subject: Reply with quote
midstakes donk
midstakes donk

Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 2190
WPP: 47
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
yeah i like calling ATs always unless you think you can induce something based on history/game flow. This new 4bet size does seem a lot more standard. I think that floating it is all right sometimes but I'm going to play the hand you flop pretty cautiously (I would shove if he bet but when he checks I think you need to check back). As played I think you should call because if youre not good you still usually have about 26% equity.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fnord
Post Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 2:00am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Royal Flush
Royal Flush

Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 17618
WPP: 82
Location: Walk the Walk, Flop the Flop.
zook wrote:
($442 to call to win $1164)...


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 30.287% 29.93% 00.36% 12299634 146956.50 { AsTs }
Hand 1: 69.713% 69.36% 00.36% 28501749 146956.50 { TT+ }

Given that his range is certainly wider, I think you're pot-stuck.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Massimo
Post Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 7:04am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Almost as bad as that idiot heybude
Almost as bad as that idiot heybude

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 2728
WPP: 72

Is the opp Dr. Giggy?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address WordPress Blog
zook
Post Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 8:35am    Post subject: Reply with quote
4-of-a-Kind
4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3293
WPP: 85
Location: practicing mindfulness
Massimo wrote:
Is the opp Dr. Giggy?

No, gopher.

Results: I called he showed Tc6c. He bitched about how bad I played it and challenged me to HU Smile I do think I butchered the hand.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BigPapi
Post Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 10:22am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Straight
Straight

Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 233
WPP: 77
Location: Rotterdam, Holland
you can't call if he just checked flop Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Deanglow
Post Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 11:03am    Post subject: Reply with quote
4-of-a-Kind
4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 1607
WPP: 47
Location: Gainesville
I think the call preflop might be slightly losing, but if you are betting this flop you cannot fold.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sauce123
Post Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 12:19pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
4-of-a-Kind
4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 1951
WPP: 54
Location: Dizzy
Deanglow wrote:
I think the call preflop might be slightly losing, but if you are betting this flop you cannot fold.


i was gonna say stuff but this is better and more succinct, bet/calling flop is probably ur best option given his line though and the pf action
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
JL
Post Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 10:33pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Full House
Full House

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 700
WPP: 79
Location: Vancouver, BC
Fnord wrote:
zook wrote:
($442 to call to win $1164)...


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 30.287% 29.93% 00.36% 12299634 146956.50 { AsTs }
Hand 1: 69.713% 69.36% 00.36% 28501749 146956.50 { TT+ }

Given that his range is certainly wider, I think you're pot-stuck.


This is for pre-flop. You forgot to add the flop.

Board: Td 2s 7c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 21.804% 21.80% 00.00% 4749 0.00 { AsTs }
Hand 1: 78.196% 78.20% 00.00% 17031 0.00 { TT+ }
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Genitruc
Post Posted: Wed, 28 May 2008, 11:10pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
4-of-a-Kind
4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 3382
WPP: 85

wtf rigged equity calculation didn't include T6cc
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Deanglow
Post Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 12:18am    Post subject: Reply with quote
4-of-a-Kind
4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 1607
WPP: 47
Location: Gainesville
sauce123 wrote:
Deanglow wrote:
I think the call preflop might be slightly losing, but if you are betting this flop you cannot fold.


i was gonna say stuff but this is better and more succinct, bet/calling flop is probably ur best option given his line though and the pf action


I also think between checking flop with SD value/for deception/whatever and bet/calling that b/c is better.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alexos
Post Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 5:38am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Full House
Full House

Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 1277
WPP: 72
Location: Montreal
Genitruc wrote:
wtf rigged equity calculation didn't include 23o !!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
bigred
Post Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 8:25am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Full House
Full House

Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 1158
WPP: 136
Location: Nest of Douchebags
zook wrote:
Massimo wrote:
Is the opp Dr. Giggy?

No, gopher.

Results: I called he showed Tc6c. He bitched about how bad I played it and challenged me to HU Smile I do think I butchered the hand.


Because calling with T6s is a good play? (Serious question, pinch of sarcasm))
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message WordPress Blog
griffey24
Post Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 8:50am    Post subject: Reply with quote
4-of-a-Kind
4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 2015
WPP: 99
Location: Toronto'ish
bigred wrote:
zook wrote:
Massimo wrote:
Is the opp Dr. Giggy?

No, gopher.

Results: I called he showed Tc6c. He bitched about how bad I played it and challenged me to HU Smile I do think I butchered the hand.


Because calling with T6s is a good play? (Serious question, pinch of sarcasm))


He shoved with T6s, he didn't call with it. So I don't think his play is that bad either. Puts a lot of midpairs and stuff in a crap spot.

Zook - what's the worst pair you're betting here?You bet calling like 88, or A7?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zook
Post Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 9:52am    Post subject: Reply with quote
4-of-a-Kind
4-of-a-Kind

Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3293
WPP: 85
Location: practicing mindfulness
griffey24 wrote:
Zook - what's the worst pair you're betting here?You bet calling like 88, or A7?

I like A7 a lot better than 88. 88 needs a lot of overcard bluffs in his range to be a +EV call, A7 not as many. I probably don't call with either pre, but I shouldn't have called with ATs...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bigred
Post Posted: Thu, 29 May 2008, 11:21am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Full House
Full House

Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 1158
WPP: 136
Location: Nest of Douchebags