taipan168's Low Buy-in SNG Do's & Dont's

OK, here's v1.0. Have incorporated most of the comments below. Further comments most welcome.

There are countless other strategy guides out there, however I thought that since FTR seems to attract a high proportion of beginner/low buyin SNG players I would condense the thoughts of a number of posters into one post. These principles are aimed at $5.50/$11 normal and $6.50 and maybe $16 turbo tourneys (and the equivalents at other sites).

Note that these are supposed to be general ideas rather than specific 'how-tos', so hopefully they are generally correct even though we might all be able to think of specific situations where another line may be better. For advice on specific hands it is best to post them. Also note that these are NOT in order of importance.

DOS
1) Play very tight early in the tourney (Levels 1-3) and even tighter in early position
Starting hand requirements have been covered elsewhere but suffice to say if you are playing hands like ATo UTG or QTs in the CO early in the tourney you are playing too loose. Similarly, you are probably playing too loose if you are limping hands like A2-A9o early in the tourney.

2) Loosen up as blinds increase and as the game gets shorthanded, particularly in position when it is folded to you
Blind stealing is key once blinds hit 75/150 at PS or 100/200 at PP. Never open limp at 50/100 and above.

3) Be aggressive
If you are going to play a hand, you should be raising preflop most of the time (e.g. if blinds are 50/100, you pick QJo in the SB, it’s folded to you, the BB has been playing tight, don’t just complete, RAISE!) The only times I limp preflop are early in the tourney with pocket pairs (playing for set value) or suited connectors in position and preferably with multiple limpers in front.

4) Early in the tourney, limp (and call raises) with low-medium pocket pairs (say 22-88) for set value
You have implied odds to play for set value on the flop with pocket pairs provided that the amount you need to call is 1/15 or less of the total chips you can win. Note that this is determined by the smaller of either your stack or your opp’s stack. Eg. you pick up 33 UTG+1 at 10/20 blinds, open limp for 20 chips, button raises to 100, then CALL the raise as you have implied odds to play for a set. However, if you don’t hit a set on the flop, then NO SET = NO BET – see i) below.

5) Raise preflop 3x BB plus 1x BB for each limper with your big hands (e.g. KK)
At PS level 1 and 2 add an extra 1x BB to try to thin the field.

6) Push or fold preflop when your stack is <10x BB
Standard raising is usually bad when you have <10x BB.

7) Bet your strong hands
Don’t slowplay! If you hit a set or two pair on the flop, in general don't check/call (e.g.if you have 55, everybody limps, you limp from the button and the flop comes A85, bet bet bet! You will get paid off by some idiot who limped with A3 soooooted.)

8) Make sure that your bubble/shorthanded play is good and that you make +EV pushes/folds/calls
In particular there are situations when it is often +EV to push with any two cards (eg. it’s folded to you in the SB and either your stack or the BB’s stack is <10x BB). This is much harder than it sounds, particularly in the heat of battle.

9) Realise there is a big, huge, ginormous difference between pushing all-in and calling all-in.
When you push all-in you add to the strength of your cards the chance that the other player will fold, when you call all-in you must be able to show down the best hand to win.

10) Generally bet between 50% and 100% of the pot at any stage
- An example where I would bet 50% of the pot on the flop is if I raised preflop, got called, missed the flop, my opponent checks, and I knew he/she was weak/tight. A half-pot bet is also a good sized bet if you flop a set against one opp who likes to chase flushes and two of a suit come on the flop.

- An example of where I would bet 100% of the pot is if I raised preflop with QQ, got two callers and the flop came T 9 2.

11) Realise that at low buyins TPTK is often the best hand on the flop even when opps lead into you after you have raised preflop
For example blinds 50/100, you raise to 275 on the button with AQs, BB calls, flop comes Q83 rainbow, opp leads for 300 – push all in! The times when your opponents flip QT and you stack them far outweigh the times when they have a set or two pair.

12) Realise that low buyin players LOVE to play A-rag
Blinds 25/50, you're on the button with KK, 4 players limp in front of you, you raise to 350, get 3 callers, flop comes A94, SHUT DOWN, there is a very high likelihood that somebody has an ace and you are well behind drawing to 2 outs. Conversely you can take advantage of this on an A high flop if you have AK or a pocket pair which hits a set, you are very likely to get paid off by one of these A-crap donks.

13) Get SnG Power Tools or SNGWIZ.com/" target="_blank" class="postlink">SNG Wizard when your bankroll can support it
It is the best single poker-related $79 (or $99 in the case of SNG Wiz) I have ever spent. It will help you learn #8 among other things.

14) Make the time to review your HHs/run them through SNGPT/SNG Wiz
If that means playing one less SNG then so be it, it is time well spent.

15) Post hands, if necessary post whole (trimmed) tourneys to get feedback
Some of the biggest improvements I have made have come about because I have had another player review my hand histories and give me feedback. Sometimes you have leaks that you miss but become bleeding obvious once someone else highlights them. Just remember to take the feedback on board! FTR is a friendly place and people are out there to help you. Just remember to take their feedback on board!

16) Realise that bad, horrible, appalling, one-outer beats do happen...
...and that the best way to console yourself is to be sure that you got your money in as a favourite - if you did, there is nothing else you can do, you effectively won. Your AA will be cracked by rubbish like QTs 19.5% of the time when your preflop push is called BUT the other 80.5% of the time you double up/take opp's whole stack. The question to ask yourself is "would I have played differently?" and if the answer is "no", then be happy whatever the results might be.

17) Remember that poker is a long term game
Long term means thousands, not hundreds of SNGs. Do realise that even the best players suffer streaks of 10+ SNGs out of the money and 20+ buyin downswings. Stick to your game and you will win money in the end.

DON'TS
a) Don’t get fancy at low buyins
ABC poker wins. There's no need for fancy slowplays, check-raises, raises with air, stop 'n' gos, etc. at the $5.50s. Wait for good hands and bet them hard - see #6 above. Conversely, if you pick up AK preflop and raise, get called, flop comes T74 rainbow, throw out a 1/2 pot c-bet, get called again, miss the turn, betting is often spewing chips unless you hit.

b) Never minraise preflop
This is a waste of chips. At the low buyins the BB and often the SB won’t fold for another 1-1.5x BB. Plus if you have a strong hand like AK, over the long run you win by getting your opps to put more money into the pot when you’re very likely ahead.

c) Don’t minbet postflop
This is a complete waste of chips and achieves nothing. If you have a hand with which you’d rather not get any calls, a minbet won’t get the $5.50 donks to fold. If you have a hand with which you would like calls, then bet more to build a pot. The best way to win a big pot with a big hand is to BET to build a big pot!

d) Almost never minraise postflop
The only time I will minraise is to induce a push over when I flop the ‘non-vulnerable’ nuts (quads or full house) and opp leads into me.

e) Don’t worry about varying your play so people wont get reads on you
They simply don’t pay attention, you don’t have a table image at low buyins. Also, don’t worry about playing with marginal hands so you’ll get action with your big hands – if someone else has a marginal hand like JTo you’ll get action with your AA even if you’ve folded the last 3 orbits.

f) Don’t call all-in with less than two pair if your flop bet is called and opp pushes on the turn
Sure, sometimes you fold the best hand but more often than not opp will have the goods.

g) Don’t bluff loose passive players who will call your preflop raises with crap then keep on calling to showdown with bottom pair
This is spewing chips. It’s similar to what Doyle Brunson said – you can’t bluff a calling station, you have to show them the best hand at showdown.

h) Don’t ever fold AA or KK preflop
Rarely fold QQ preflop unless there is serious action in front (e.g. raise, push and call) or there is some unusual bubble situation (e.g. it’s 4-handed, you’re second stack, the small stack has 2x BB and the big stack pushes).

i) Don't get married to hands like AK and low pocket pairs that need to improve if you miss the flop
I've seen countless times when players limp preflop with 55, flop comes all overcards, bet, get called, miss the turn, bet again, get called again, miss the river, bet yet again, get called and end up losing a big pot to somebody who called all the way to showdown with TPNK. With low/medium pocket pairs, remember SET OR FORGET; with missed high cards like AK/AQ remember all you have on a missed flop is ace high.

j) Don't play when you are on tilt, tired, drunk, stoned, grumpy, just had an argument with your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend, whatever
Recognising when you are not playing your best and just NOT PLAYING is very +EV. Even more important, if you're on tilt because you've just taken six bad beats in a row don't move up buyins to try to recover what you've lost. There are enough sad statistics on Sharkscope of players who usually play the $6.50s, lose 4 in a row then proceed to spew even more money at the $16s, $27s and $60s...

k) Don't believe "I can't win at the $5.50s, I will win more by moving up and playing with players who respect my bets/raises"
This is plain wrong. Sure, players at higher buyins may play tighter and may well fold a bit more often to your preflop raises or postflop bets but there are so many other ways which they can pwn you - they will be MUCH more aggressive, generally displaying a good understanding of bubble play/ICM etc. If you can't consistently beat the $5.50s over a few hundred SnGs then you will NOT beat the $22s, $33s and $55s.

l) Don’t get defensive when people reply to your posts saying you’re incorrect
Justifying a bad play to yourself won’t make you money, improving your play will.

Posted by taipan168 on August 17, 2006 at 07:15

taipan168 wrote:

12) Get SnG Power Tools when your bankroll can support it It is the best single poker-related $79 I have ever spent. It will help you learn #7 among other things.

I've just finished demoing Poker Office which I quite liked, but what's the general concensus on the best poker tool? Does SNG Analyzer have anything that Poker Office doesnt?

Posted by Madizm on August 17, 2006 at 09:38

Madizm wrote:

I've just finished demoing Poker Office which I quite liked, but what's the general concensus on the best poker tool? Does SNG Analyzer have anything that Poker Office doesnt?

They are different tools. PokerOffice/Poker Tracker give you reads on how players are playing, allow you to conveniently review your HHs and track your results. SNGPT calculates whether a push or all-in call is + or -EV based upon calling/pushing ranges of your opponents. It is basically like a combination of an ICM calculator and Pokerstove.

Posted by taipan168 on August 17, 2006 at 10:05

5) Push or fold preflop when your stack is <10x BB
Standard raising is usually bad when you have <10x BB.

I hate this, its Harringtons book thing and what he thinks. 10xbb isnt a critical stack like he makes it to be. And another thing is that I have seen so many ppl that makes critics on his SnGs section and I dont even like it either. This strategy also depends on the structure of the game, just look at Paradise, the blinds get bigger faster late than any other site, on PokerStars you can relax with 10xbb. On Paradise you have to take more chances because the blinds increase every 10 hands and not 8 min, this means more agressive bubble play on Paradise.

Posted by soft on August 17, 2006 at 10:21

soft wrote:

5) Push or fold preflop when your stack is <10x BB Standard raising is usually bad when you have <10x BB. I hate this, its Harringtons book thing and what he thinks. 10xbb isnt a critical stack like he makes it to be. And another thing is that I have seen so many ppl that makes critics on his SnGs section and I dont even like it either. This strategy also depends on the structure of the game, just look at Paradise, the blinds get bigger faster late than any other site, on PokerStars you can relax with 10xbb. On Paradise you have to take more chances because the blinds increase every 10 hands and not 8 min, this means more agressive bubble play on Paradise.

I know you've posted elsewhere about this, I'm not sure what I can do to convince you, it seems to be almost a religious belief. Everybody on this site and 2+2 believes that you need to push with <10x BB though, maybe we are all smoking the same dope.

I do agree that you need to be selective with the hands you push with a <10x BB stack, but I think the general principle that if you are prepared to call a push over with whatever hand you are 3x BB raising then you should just get it all in first still holds. Plus if you are raising hands like AK that only get value from seeing all 5 cards then standard raising and folding when you miss the flop is spewing chips IMO.

Posted by taipan168 on August 17, 2006 at 20:24

excellent post taipan. I play intermediate level sngs now, but almost all of these points apply to mid-level buy-ins as well, with the exception of 5, 10, and 11.

10 you have to be really careful with.
11 is very true for low sngs but much more rare for $22-$33's.

5, well I disagree with this, both for low buyins and mid level buyins. In the interest of keeping this thread on topic though, I'll just say that I think you can easily go as low as 6 or 7 BB's before entering this "mode," depending on how full the table is still and their relative stack sizes.

B is not true when the blinds are high and there is a short stack in the BB. D should include this statement as caveat.

E is still true at mid levels, interestingly enough.

Again, excellent post. I've actually been wanting to post something along these lines but more simplified and even more general, and ranked in order of importance of concept.

Oh, and by the way, L is not necessarily true - if you know more than the person disagreeing with you.

Posted by FlyingSaucy on September 07, 2006 at 10:04

Thanks for the feedback! I'll put together v0.3 when I get a chance. Also swiggedy was involved in this too, I'm not going to take all the credit.

FlyingSaucy wrote:

10 you have to be really careful with.

At higher buyins I think you're right, you have to be careful. If I flopped a set OOP against a preflop raiser I would lead the flop too and hope that opp pushed over. The thing is at low buyins you are much more likely to be up against TPNK, MPTK or even worse than a set or two pair. Also, I would be MUCH more careful about calling AI with TPTK rather than shoving over with TPTK.

FlyingSaucy wrote:

11 is very true for low sngs but much more rare for $22-$33's.

Agreed. I haven't played $22s/$33s but I've seen so many low buyin players CALL all-in preflop at early levels because everybody knows that A-crap is DA NUTS particularly if SOOOOTED.

FlyingSaucy wrote:

5, well I disagree with this, both for low buyins and mid level buyins. In the interest of keeping this thread on topic though, I'll just say that I think you can easily go as low as 6 or 7 BB's before entering this "mode," depending on how full the table is still and their relative stack sizes.

Yeah, I know this has been the subject of debate, maybe it should say don't limp in when your stack is 10x BB, raise or fold only. Or maybe I change 5 to say 8-10x BB but no limping in.

EDIT: Once you are more skilled I agree you can go a bit lower before push/fold but I think 10x BB is a better rule for new players to avoid the following scenario where shoving all-in preflop would save spewing chips:
- Hero has 10x BB left. Folded to Hero on the button with AJo. Hero raises to 2.5x BB, SB folds and the BB calls.
- Hero has 7.5x BB left, flop comes K95 two spades. BB checks. Hero throws out c-bet of 3x BB into the 5.5x BB pot. BB calls. Pot is 11.5x BB.
- Hero has 4.5x BB left, turn is a blank. Check/check.
- River is a non-spade J. BB shoves all-in. Hero ????

FlyingSaucy wrote:

B is not true when the blinds are high and there is a short stack in the BB.

True. That's why I added the disclaimer that these statements are hopefully generally correct but there may be specific situations where they are wrong. Much better to get new players to never minraise preflop rather than finding excuses for them to do so.

FlyingSaucy wrote:

D should include this statement as caveat.

Agreed, but again I think it is more +EV to stop new players minraising altogether than finding excuses to minraise. These exceptions can be learned with experience IMO.

FlyingSaucy wrote:

E is still true at mid levels, interestingly enough.

There have been discussions on 2+2 that ABC poker can still generate a positive ROI at the $215s and $530s.

FlyingSaucy wrote:

Again, excellent post. I've actually been wanting to post something along these lines but more simplified and even more general, and ranked in order of importance of concept.

Would be a great addition to the forums!

Posted by taipan168 on September 07, 2006 at 19:44

Bump - I added a point and tidied up some of the wording. Any comments would be welcome!

Posted by taipan168 on March 05, 2007 at 23:49

f) is my leak. Although I'm not calling all ins, however my variation is that I need to respect aggression in general on the turn. Too many times I get min raised on the turn to find out that he had me at hello.

Posted by Sprayed on March 06, 2007 at 07:22

Point 4: I dont totally agree with it.
TT,99 are powerful hands in MP-LP when folded to you, you usually want to raise them, and if called and the flop is all unders you have the best hand most of the times, if it comes with overs, its depends.

From EP I tend to fold the lowest PP (22-44 maybe even 55,66 depends on table aggressiveness).

Against a single opponent set-it or forget it is not always correct, especially if the raise is from LP and the flop is rags.

#6: I have seen the debate here, I think the important point is not push/fold, it is raise/fold, and only play hands you are willing to put your entire stack on.
With 9 BB I have no problem raising 3BB, most of the time I will call an AI from 1 opponent, and most of the time I would push the flop.

#10: I would change it to bet 50-100% of the flop, anything less then 50% is rare, there may be cases to slowplay as well, and I can find exceptions to any rule here, the 25% case is the exception, not the standard 'do'

Posted by TLR on March 06, 2007 at 07:52

TLR wrote:

Point 4: I dont totally agree with it. TT,99 are powerful hands in MP-LP when folded to you, you usually want to raise them, and if called and the flop is all unders you have the best hand most of the times, if it comes with overs, its depends.

Good point about raising 99/TT from LP, I'll edit to address this point. From the CO and button this arguably applies to 66-88 as well. Just proves that it is so hard to give general principles.

TLR wrote:

From EP I tend to fold the lowest PP (22-44 maybe even 55,66 depends on table aggressiveness).

Low buyin tourneys tend to be passive so you can usually see a flop without being raised, even from EP. Plus you have implied odds to call a raise, and the fact that you are OOP is not such a disadvantage because you either hit a set with 22-44 and try to get all your chips in, or c/f if you don't.

TLR wrote:

Against a single opponent set-it or forget it is not always correct, especially if the raise is from LP and the flop is rags.

Agreed, but I think low buyin players lose more value by trying to get fancy on a missed flop than just c/f if no set.

TLR wrote:

#6: I have seen the debate here, I think the important point is not push/fold, it is raise/fold, and only play hands you are willing to put your entire stack on. With 9 BB I have no problem raising 3BB, most of the time I will call an AI from 1 opponent, and most of the time I would push the flop.

I don't disagree with you, but for low buyin players I think it is better to just open push preflop when they have <10x BB rather than letting themselves fall into the trap of standard raising then c/f a missed flop (say with a hand like AJ) leaving themselves desperately short.

TLR wrote:

#10: I would change it to bet 50-100% of the flop, anything less then 50% is rare, there may be cases to slowplay as well, and I can find exceptions to any rule here, the 25% case is the exception, not the standard 'do'

I agree with this, I will change it. Again I think low buyin players gain more by betting 50% of the pot in the example I gave rather than trying to slowplay and getting outdrawn.

Posted by taipan168 on March 06, 2007 at 08:16

Taipan wrote:

Quote:

TLR wrote: Against a single opponent set-it or forget it is not always correct, especially if the raise is from LP and the flop is rags. Agreed, but I think low buyin players lose more value by trying to get fancy on a missed flop than just c/f if no set.

agreed, it takes some more experience

Quote:

TLR wrote: #6: I have seen the debate here, I think the important point is not push/fold, it is raise/fold, and only play hands you are willing to put your entire stack on. With 9 BB I have no problem raising 3BB, most of the time I will call an AI from 1 opponent, and most of the time I would push the flop. I don't disagree with you, but for low buyin players I think it is better to just open push preflop when they have <10x BB rather than letting themselves fall into the trap of standard raising then c/f a missed flop (say with a hand like AJ) leaving themselves desperately short.

I agree that you have to usually play the hand for all your chips, you may either push preflop or raise pre and push flop

Posted by TLR on March 06, 2007 at 09:25

nominate for sticky

Posted by |~|ypermegachi on March 06, 2007 at 13:59

taipan168 wrote:

OK, here's v0.3.

My vote for sticky! Right away, no need to wait for V1.0
This pretty much sums all you need to be EV+ in SNGs

taipan168 wrote:

8) Make sure that your bubble/shorthanded play is good and that you make +EV pushes/folds/calls In particular there are situations when it is often +EV to push with any two cards (eg. it’s folded to you in the SB and either your stack or the BB’s stack is <10x BB). This is much harder than it sounds, particularly in the heat of battle.

Ummmm, kind to elaborate a little this "ANY 2" part

Posted by Sheetah on March 06, 2007 at 14:21

Thought this was already stickied,

It needs to be.

Posted by Xioustic on March 06, 2007 at 14:33